tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post4134421832230124682..comments2023-11-02T03:08:07.417-07:00Comments on NephiCode: Answering a Reader's Eastern U.S. Model – Part V: Mountains, Whose Height is Great - Part IDelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-13947640813502989342017-02-13T08:46:19.060-08:002017-02-13T08:46:19.060-08:00Michael: I thought so but was just checking--like ...Michael: I thought so but was just checking--like to answer everything I can.Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-52889385025492152022017-02-13T06:00:01.068-08:002017-02-13T06:00:01.068-08:00Del, The first part of that post was a quote of o...Del, The first part of that post was a quote of one of David's post. Starting at "Wow" is my response to his post.Michael Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08315787162790624190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-71147959087698491282017-02-12T15:30:34.869-08:002017-02-12T15:30:34.869-08:00Michael Richardson: You wrote, ""Del
I g...Michael Richardson: You wrote, ""Del<br />I go by what the scriptures say. Your trying to get a certain geographical area to fit the scriptures but it clearly doesn't." Wow. Please apply this to yourself. Your theories make swiss cheese seem absolutely solid." Was that intended for me? If so, please elaborate.Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-17636704131870085672017-02-12T11:35:54.614-08:002017-02-12T11:35:54.614-08:00DAVID: YOUR REDUNDANT AND REPETITIVE COMMENTS ARE ...DAVID: YOUR REDUNDANT AND REPETITIVE COMMENTS ARE NO LONGER WELCOME HERE SINCE THEY ADD NOTHING TO OUR OVERALL PURPOSE OF DISCUSSING THE SCRIPTURAL RECORD. YOUR 22 POSTS ON OUR BLOG IN ONE DAY WITH NOTHING BUT REPEATED ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE REPEATEDLY BEEN ANSWERED IS A DISTRACTION TO OUR READERS AND A WASTE OF TIME FOR US.<br /><br />IF YOU KEEP POSTING, WE WILL SIMPLY ERASE THEM. WHEN THE CURRENT SERIE ANSWERING YOUR COMMENTS IS CONCLUDED IN A FEW DAYS, WE WILL AGAIN LOOK AT YOUR COMMENTS—IF THEY ARE NEW MATERIAL, WE WILL RESPOND TO THEM, IF NOT, YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY REMOVED FROM THIS BLOG AS AN ANNOYANCE<br />Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-67211651495421527922017-02-12T11:35:47.614-08:002017-02-12T11:35:47.614-08:00David, your above comment is the type of thing tha...David, your above comment is the type of thing that is so annoying. That scripture is about the Jaredites. For heaven's sake, can't you read a scripture an ever get it right?Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-68282947868121600102017-02-11T22:51:34.040-08:002017-02-11T22:51:34.040-08:00I have seen to many errors with what del has and s...I have seen to many errors with what del has and stricture here the examples that he tries to explain away but it involves mental gymnastics to accept the theories he is pushing. Calling horses alpaca not having migrating beast goats cattle wheat barley Book of Mormon Artifacts etc are all things that nobody can get behind unless you drink the Del Coolaid<br /><br />1)The notion that the west sea borders the land of Zarahemla and the Land of Nephi is not supported by scripture.<br />We know that the East sea borders the Land of Nephi but if the Land of Nephi truly bordered the Pacific Ocean it would say so but it doesn’t say that. <br />Helaman 50:8<br />8 And the land of a Nephi did run<br />in a straight course from the east<br />sea to the west. (Describing the Land of Nephi west and east border it only mentions the East Sea)<br /><br />2) If Zarahemla bordered the west sea Hagoth could have launched from Zarahemla but in order to launch from the west sea Hagoth had to travel North. Don’t you see a problem with that he traveled North not west. See Alma 63. <br />When the Lamanites retreat from Zarahemla they retreat North and West towards wilderness. The scriptures state the only thing west of Zarahemla is wilderness and Lamanites not a Sea. See Alma 2<br />Alma 22:28<br />Now, the more idle part of the Lamanites lived in the wilderness,<br />and dwelt in tents; and they were spread through the wilderness on<br />the west, in the land of Nephi; YEA, AND ALSO ON THE WEST OF THE LAND OF ZARAHEMLA,<br /><br />3) The scriptures point to the idea that the West Sea most southern point did not extend past much of Bountiful. When the Laminates get ready to attack bountiful it gives the indication that they are south of the West Sea. Alma 53:8<br />8 And now it came to pass that the armies of the Lamanites, on the<br />WEST SEA, SOUTH, while in the absence of Moroni on account of some intrigue<br />amongst the Nephites, which caused dissensions amongst them, had gained some ground over the Nephites, yea, insomuch that they had obtained possession of a number<br />of their cities in that part of the land.<br /><br />4) You state that Zarahemla is in the Land northward north of the Narrow Neck that is not what the scriptures say. The scriptures say Zarahemla is in the land southward south of the Narrow Neck.<br /><br />Ether 9:31<br />31 And there came forth poisonous serpents also upon the face of the land, and did poison many people. And it came to pass that their flocks began to flee before the poisonous serpents, towards the land SOUTHWARD, which was called by the NEPHITES ZARAHEMLA.<br /><br />Bountiful is also stated as being in the Land southward<br />Alma 22<br />31 And they came from there up into the south wilderness. Thus the land on the northward was called Desolation, and THE LAND SOUTHWARD WAS called Bountiful, <br /><br /><br />Alma 22:32<br />there being a SMALL NECK OF LAND BETWEEN the LAND NORTHWARD and the LAND SOUTHWARD.<br /><br />4) You state that Zarahemla has mountains and pointed to a couple of verses that stated the Gadianton warriors lived in a wilderness that had mountains. Nothing to do with Zarahemla. The other verse states that the city of moronihah got covered by a mountain before Christ visit. Once again it has nothing to do with Zarahemla. Hills and plains are mentioned more in the Book of Mormon then mountains are mentioned. The only people who lived in the mountains were robbers.<br /><br />5) The notion that the mountains mention in the Book of Mormon need to be a certain elevation to qualify as great is your opinion and your opinion only. We live in a day when we understand the mountain ranges and the elevation of their peaks. The Nephites were only aware of and could only compare the greatest of mountains that they knew of. The idea that the Andes mountains are the only mountains that qualify is ridiculous.<br /><br />6) You have no explanation for the migrating beast mentioned in the Book of Mormon (no migrating mammals in south America) and the Lamanites on the west part of the land of Nephi and Zarahemla who lived in TENTS (Tepees). There are no south American civilizations that lived-in tents. <br />dave mackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06849621839266310554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-8831516055314119132017-02-11T21:52:02.013-08:002017-02-11T21:52:02.013-08:00Hagoth could not launch from Zarahemla because on ...Hagoth could not launch from Zarahemla because on the west side was nothing but lamanites besides not having a shoreline to launch from.<br /><br />Del has shoreline west of Zarahemla no Lamanites.<br /><br />Alma 22:28<br />Now, the more idle part of the Lamanites lived in the wilderness, and dwelt in tents; and they were spread through the wilderness on the west, in the land of Nephi; YEA, AND ALSO ON THE WEST OF THE LAND OF ZARAHEMLA,dave mackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06849621839266310554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-70698496588305330942017-02-11T21:49:13.069-08:002017-02-11T21:49:13.069-08:00Del you place Zarahemla and Buntiful in the land N...Del you place Zarahemla and Buntiful in the land Nortward according to scripture Zarahemla and Bountiful are in the Land southward seperated by Desolation by a narrow neck of land. You need to get your facts straight.<br /><br />31 And they came from there up into the south wilderness. Thus the land on the northward was called Desolation, and THE LAND SOUTHWARD WAS called Bountiful, <br /><br />Ether 9:31<br />31 And there came forth poisonous serpents also upon the face of the land, and did poison many people. And it came to pass that their flocks began to flee before the poisonous serpents, towards the land SOUTHWARD, which was called by the NEPHITES ZARAHEMLA.<br /><br />Alma 22:32<br />there being a SMALL NECK OF LAND BETWEEN the LAND NORTHWARD and the LAND SOUTHWARD.<br /><br />Del you got a lot of fixing to dodave mackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06849621839266310554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-36816337785318737492017-02-11T21:43:42.176-08:002017-02-11T21:43:42.176-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.dave mackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06849621839266310554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-27969254290502154322017-02-11T21:40:48.709-08:002017-02-11T21:40:48.709-08:00They are surrounded by water if you look at my map...They are surrounded by water if you look at my map the major borders are major rivers and shorelines but we know that the west side of Zarahemla was not shore lines it was wilderness occupied by lamanites who lived in tents<br /><br />Alma 22:28<br />Now, the more idle part of the Lamanites lived in the wilderness, and dwelt in tents; and they were spread through the wilderness on the west, in the land of Nephi; YEA, AND ALSO ON THE WEST OF THE LAND OF ZARAHEMLA,<br /><br />When the Lamanites retreat from Zarahemla they retreat North and West towards wilderness. The scriptures state the only thing west of Zarahemla is wilderness and Lamanites not a Sea. See Alma 2<br /><br />Notice that del does not have a lamanites on the west of Zarahemla another major errordave mackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06849621839266310554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-26972305464296804602017-02-11T21:35:48.422-08:002017-02-11T21:35:48.422-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.dave mackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06849621839266310554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-255681541299424252017-02-11T08:32:54.081-08:002017-02-11T08:32:54.081-08:00David, you need to consider that since everyone di...David, you need to consider that since everyone disagrees with you on this blog, that there may be some truth to their concerns.<br /><br />You quote Helaman 50:8 and your interpretation of it over and over and over-- as if this one scripture absolutely proves your point. How come you cannot see that Alma 22:27 does mention an East Sea? <br /><br />"...which [land of the Lamanites] was divided from the land of Zarahemla by a narrow strip of wilderness, which ran from the SEA EAST east even to the SEA WEST."<br /><br />And verse 32 furthermore contradicts your maps:<br /><br />"...and thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were NEARLY SURROUNDED BY WATER, there being a small neck of land between the land northward and the land southward."<br /><br />In fact one of the biggest holes in your model is that the land Northward can be easily traveled to without using the Narrow Neck.erichardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12279217537472159142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-87159071985383952672017-02-11T08:17:02.340-08:002017-02-11T08:17:02.340-08:00Seriously. Read his stuff. It will go along way...Seriously. Read his stuff. It will go along way towards making you less of a petulant and uninformed child. For example, his placement of the harbor Hagoth launched ships from makes perfect sense, as a protected inlet is a much better location to launch ships from that a bare coastline.Michael Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08315787162790624190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-83892044483623119042017-02-11T08:07:09.929-08:002017-02-11T08:07:09.929-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Michael Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08315787162790624190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-24195446425427619772017-02-11T08:06:59.485-08:002017-02-11T08:06:59.485-08:00"Del
I go by what the scriptures say. Your t..."Del <br />I go by what the scriptures say. Your trying to get a certain geographical area to fit the scriptures but it clearly doesn't." Wow. Please apply this to yourself. Your theories make swiss cheese seem absolutely solid.Michael Richardsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08315787162790624190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-53712639013435497962017-02-11T06:14:56.039-08:002017-02-11T06:14:56.039-08:00Del
I go by what the scriptures say. Your trying ...Del <br />I go by what the scriptures say. Your trying to get a certain geographical area to fit the scriptures but it clearly doesn't. <br />1)The notion that the west sea borders the land of Zarahemla and the Land of Nephi is not supported by scripture.<br />We know that the East sea borders the Land of Nephi but if the Land of Nephi truly bordered the Pacific Ocean it would say so but it doesn’t say that. <br />Helaman 50:8<br />8 And the land of a Nephi did run<br />in a straight course from the east<br />sea to the west. (Describing the Land of Nephi west and east border it only mentions the East Sea)<br /><br />2) If Zarahemla bordered the west sea Hagoth could have launched from Zarahemla but in order to launch from the west sea Hagoth had to travel North. Don’t you see a problem with that he traveled North not west. See Alma 63. <br />When the Lamanites retreat from Zarahemla they retreat North and West towards wilderness. The scriptures state the only thing west of Zarahemla is wilderness and Lamanites not a Sea. See Alma 2<br />Alma 22:28<br />Now, the more idle part of the Lamanites lived in the wilderness,<br />and dwelt in tents; and they were spread through the wilderness on<br />the west, in the land of Nephi; YEA, AND ALSO ON THE WEST OF THE LAND OF ZARAHEMLA,<br /><br />3) The scriptures point to the idea that the West Sea most southern point did not extend past much of Bountiful. When the Laminates get ready to attack bountiful it gives the indication that they are south of the West Sea. Alma 53:8<br />8 And now it came to pass that the armies of the Lamanites, on the<br />WEST SEA, SOUTH, while in the absence of Moroni on account of some intrigue<br />amongst the Nephites, which caused dissensions amongst them, had gained some ground over the Nephites, yea, insomuch that they had obtained possession of a number<br />of their cities in that part of the land.<br /><br />4) You state that Zarahemla is in the Land northward north of the Narrow Neck that is not what the scriptures say. The scriptures say Zarahemla is in the land southward south of the Narrow Neck.<br />Ether 9:31<br />31 And there came forth poisonous serpents also upon the face of<br />the land, and did poison many people. And it came to pass that their<br />flocks began to flee before the poisonous serpents, towards the land<br />SOUTHWARD, which was called by the NEPHITES ZARAHEMLA.<br />Alma 22:32<br />there being a SMALL NECK OF LAND BETWEEN the LAND NORTHWARD and the LAND SOUTHWARD.<br /><br />4) You state that Zarahemla has mountains and pointed to a couple of verses that stated the Gadianton warriors lived in a wilderness that had mountains. Nothing to do with Zarahemla. The other verse states that the city of moronihah got covered by a mountain before Christ visit. Once again it has nothing to do with Zarahemla. Hills and plains are mentioned more in the Book of Mormon then mountains are mentioned. The only people who lived in the mountains were robbers.<br /><br />5) The notion that the mountains mention in the Book of Mormon need to be a certain elevation to qualify as great is your opinion and your opinion only. We live in a day when we understand the mountain ranges and the elevation of their peaks. The Nephites were only aware of and could only compare the greatest of mountains that they knew of. The idea that the Andes mountains are the only mountains that qualify is ridiculous.<br /><br />6) You have no explanation for the migrating beast mentioned in the Book of Mormon (no migrating mammals in south America) and the Lamanites on the west part of the land of Nephi and Zarahemla who lived in TENTS (Tepees). There are no south American civilizations that lived-in tents. <br />dave mackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06849621839266310554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-50351460442981629742017-02-10T16:37:01.174-08:002017-02-10T16:37:01.174-08:00David, you wrote: “To a Nephite the term whos heig...David, you wrote: “To a Nephite the term whos height is great is relative to where you live. To person who lives in Arizona the highest peak is in Arizona. If you live in Utah the highest peak you know of is in Utah. There are plenty of mountain ranges in north America. But you and iterry never did answer the question there is no verse in the Book of Mormon that states Zarahemla has mountains your misleading your readers”<br />Response: I wonder who is misleading who. If you were to have asked a Nephite, then perhaps the idea of relativity might be accurate. However, those words of oh eight came from the Lord, who put them in the heart of Samuel the Lamanite to say, and if you have read the scriptural record of Samuel’s experience and his assignment from the Lord, you would know that. Now, we are talking about the Lord saying “whose height is great.” The Lord, as you might recall, organized this world, including the Himalayas and the Karakoram, the Rocky Mountains, the mountains in eastern United States, and the Andes in South America. He organized Mount Everest (29,029-feet) and K2 (28,251) as well as all the others. Now, he said “whose height is great,” not some individual who had never seen anything higher than the Appalachians, etc., like you are inferring. “Whose height is great” means just that—mountains whose height is very high—and in the entire Western Hemisphere, those would be the Andes, with some 200 peaks from 18,000 to 22,000 feet. <br />Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-74350026903144177182017-02-10T16:29:36.539-08:002017-02-10T16:29:36.539-08:00continuing with the above)
More importantly, the A...continuing with the above)<br />More importantly, the Appalachian peaks are not in New York: North Carolina has 6 (6 of the top 7 peaks are all in North Carolina, far from McKane’s Land of Promise), Virginia has 2, New Hampshire has 1, and Tennessee has 1, the latter being in McKane’s Land of Nephi, and the 8th tallest mountain in the range.<br />Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-83801668212047840582017-02-10T16:26:39.956-08:002017-02-10T16:26:39.956-08:00David, you wrote: "In terms of the largest mo...David, you wrote: "In terms of the largest mountain range in the Land of Promise (North America) your looking at the Rocky Mountains."<br />Response: Perhaps you should invest in an atlas. The Rocky Mountains are not in the area of your Land of Promise on your many maps, but actually far from it. Of the mountain ranges you do list (in New York), none are in the area of your Land of Zarahemla, Land of Nephi, Land of Bountiful or Land Northward. <br />You also wrote: “There are three major mountain ranges in New York the Adirondack Mountains, the Catskill Mountains, and part of the Appalachian Mountains”<br />Response: Again, you err. The mountains ranges on the east coast of the U.S. are not major mountain ranges regarding height—only one is listed as “major” and that is in the land it covers, which is the Appalachian which stretches all along the eastern coast. And those three ranges, the highest peak is only 6684-feet and that is in the Appalachians; the highest peak in the Adirondacks is 5344-feet; and in the Catskills, the highest peak is only 4154-feet. <br />While the top 10 peaks in the Appalachians are 5500 feet to 6683, they are dome mountains, that look more like high hills or large mounds—not like any mountain that would give anyone an impression of their height being great—in fact, the range is listed as: “Low, gentle, easy, unchallenging hills, whose relative lack of height and ruggedness, leave their most important characteristic their extensive forest.”<br />The Adirondacks have two peak over 5,000-feet (5344 and 5114), mostly everything else is 4012 to 4960-feet. The Adirondacks are in northeast New York, along the Vermont border, and again, not in McKane’s Land of Promise map.<br />The Catskills have two peaks over 4000-feet (4180 and 4040), the rest are 3508 to 3980-feet. The Catskills are in southeastern New York, less than 100 miles from Manhattan, and not in McKane’s Land of Promise according to his maps.<br />Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-67471204338829656662017-02-10T15:30:19.093-08:002017-02-10T15:30:19.093-08:00David, you wrote: "To a Nephite the term whos...David, you wrote: "To a Nephite the term whos height is great is relative to where you live."<br />Response: We answered this the other day in one of your other comments that stated the same thing. If you are not going to read our responses, stop making inaccurate statements.Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-61725854465348775882017-02-10T14:12:10.461-08:002017-02-10T14:12:10.461-08:00David, you wrote: “Seas of the Nephites: 1) East S...David, you wrote: “Seas of the Nephites: 1) East Sea (Lake Erie): Alma 50:8, Alma 50:13, Alma 52:13 ; 2) Sea East (Lake Ontario) Alma 22:27, Helaman 3:8, Helaman 11:20; 3) West Sea (Lake Michigan) Alma 22:32-33, Alma 50:11, Alma 52:11-12, Alma 53:8, Alma 63:5, Helaman 4:17; 4) Sea West (Lake Huron) Alma 22:27, Helaman 3:8, Helaman 11:20; 5) Sea South (Gulf of Mexico) Helaman 3:8; 6) North Sea (Lake Superior) Helaman 3:8”<br />Response: At one time Mormon tells us all the surrounding seas of the Land of Promise, in which he wrote: “And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east” (Helaman 3:8). That does not leave any room for any other seas that would be peripheral to the Land of Promise as your two east seas and two west seas are. You simply haven’t a leg to stand on. The only other sea that is mentioned is “where the sea divides the land” (Ether 10:20), and this is really not a named sea, therefore, not separate from the four seas mentioned in Helaman 3:8, but a part of a sea that cuts into the land (like a bay or gulf).<br />Obviously, you take great pride in something you feel sets you apart from everyone else, but it is not so worded or stated in the scriptural record and you might as well be talking about a Land Eastward and a Land Westward as your two extra seas that do not exist.<br />Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-22477259702492387052017-02-10T14:02:25.194-08:002017-02-10T14:02:25.194-08:00David, you wrote: “Concerning Zarahemla having mou...David, you wrote: “Concerning Zarahemla having mountains you reference. Helaman 11:25,28,31. In Helaman Chapter 11 the city or land of Zarahemla is never mentioned in that Chapter.”<br />Response: We answered this in one of the recent comment sections of your writing. When you don’t read our responses to your comments and keep repeating them, you lose all respect and credibility.<br />Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-48951714708609452532017-02-10T14:01:52.069-08:002017-02-10T14:01:52.069-08:00(continued from above)
You seem to get mixed up in...(continued from above)<br />You seem to get mixed up in your idea of the Land of Promise. First of all, You quoted 3 Nephi 2:17, which states: “And it came to pass in the commencement of the fourteenth year, the war between the robbers and the people of Nephi did continue and did become exceedingly sore; nevertheless, the people of Nephi did gain some advantage of the robbers, insomuch that they did drive them back out of their lands into the mountains and into their secret places. This is not rocket science, i.e., within the land we usually call Nephite Lands because they are north of the narrow neck of land and the Lamanite controlled lands, were mountainous regions some of which were the secret hideouts of the Gadianton Robbers, and while this area was not in the occupied area of the Nephites, it was still within the Land of Nephi (county) probably among some of the lands mentioned above that were in the east.<br />In another of your references, it states: “Now the people said unto Gidgiddoni: Pray unto the Lord, and let us go up upon the mountains and into the wilderness, that we may fall upon the robbers and destroy them in their own lands” (3 Nephi 3:20). Again, this is not rocket science—the Gaddianton Robbers controlled an area in the mountains in the Land of Zarahemla (county) which Mormon is here saying “in their lands,” meaning the lands the Gaddianton Robbers controlled. It is in no way saying this was a separate land, not part of the overall Land of Zarahemla (county).<br />In the last of your references: “And it came to pass that in the latter end of the eighteenth year those armies of robbers had prepared for battle, and began to come down and to sally forth from the hills, and out of the mountains, and the wilderness, and their strongholds, and their secret places, and began to take possession of the lands, both which were in the land south and which were in the land north, and began to take possession of all the lands which had been deserted by the Nephites, and the cities which had been left desolate” (3 Nephi 4:1). Again, and this should not be hard for anyone to understand, part of the Land of Zarahemla (county), i.e., that land north of the narrow strip of wilderness controlled overall by the Nephites, the Gaddianton Robbers held a portion of the mountainous area because of their strength and were hard to root out by the Nephite armies because their hideouts were secret.<br />Thus, your comment “it states the Mountains occupied by the Gadianton robbers is not part of the Nephite lands.” This is patently not true.<br />Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-77612410669009036482017-02-10T14:01:37.311-08:002017-02-10T14:01:37.311-08:00David, you wrote above: “In these verses, it state...David, you wrote above: “In these verses, it states that the Gadianton robbers lived in the mountains but one verse in particular disproves what you are trying to say it states the Mountains occupied by the Gadianton robbers is not part of the Nephite lands.” 3Ne 1:27 3Ne 2:17 3Ne 3:20 3Ne4:1<br />Response: First, your initial reference states: “And it came to pass that the ninety and third year did also pass away in peace, save it were for the Gadianton robbers, who dwelt upon the mountains, who did infest the land; for so strong were their holds and their secret places that the people could not overpower them; therefore they did commit many murders, and did do much slaughter among the people” (3 Nephi 1:27).<br />You seem to get mixed up in your idea of the Land of Promise. Keep in mind that in the Land Southward, among that land north of the narrow strip of wilderness, which we sometimes incorrectly call the Land of Zarahemla as all inclusive, there are other lands, suh as Manti, Morianton, Lehi, Moroni, Jershon, etc. One of those is the Land of Gideon, the Valley of Gideon and the City of Gideon, all east of the Sidon River and not in the Land of Zarahemla proper. As an example, the City of Salt Lake is in Salt lake County, but also in that county is West Valley City, West Jordan, Sandy, Draper, Alta, etc. Gideon is another land and separate from the Land of Zarahemla, though part of the greater Land of Zarahemla (county).<br />The topography of the Land of Zarahemla is flat in the west along the seashore, where the Mulekites landed and the city of Zarahemla is located, however, as you go inland, there are mountains, some very tall (18,000 t 20,000-feet). In the east, where the Gadianton Robbers were located, it was very mountainous, with numerous scriptural references about mountains are located regarding the Robbers’ hideouts. The city of Gideon is in a valley, and the valley, like all valleys (a valley is a low area of land between hills or mountains), is surrounded or nearly surrounded to some extent, by mountains.<br />(continued below)<br />Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-1004763352595316722017-02-10T13:23:08.991-08:002017-02-10T13:23:08.991-08:00Again absurdAgain absurdIterryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281119992916618849noreply@blogger.com