tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post4825488297384377514..comments2023-11-02T03:08:07.417-07:00Comments on NephiCode: Are Wild Horses Native to the Americas – Part IDelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-41565813639194516132018-09-01T09:14:48.729-07:002018-09-01T09:14:48.729-07:00Responding to your claim that the Bering Sea land ...Responding to your claim that the Bering Sea land bridge has not been proven geologically, I’ll have to differ with you.<br /><br />Why is that?<br /><br />In the early to mid ‘70’s, during a USGS exploration ship cruise in the Bering Sea, I was present when some of our vibracore core samples were found to exhibit 3-4 ‘peat’ layers. These ‘peat’ layers had all the appearance of being tundra. They were dated (RC) to ~11 K to 34 K years BP, w/two other dates in between (I actually sent the samples in for dating). Later I did a more thorough analyses of the peat layers and found them to contain the same micro fauna found in present day tundra.<br /><br />The obvious implication is that the ‘peats’ were laid down when the Bering Sea coast in the sampling area was exposed above the then sea level.<br /><br />One of our associates was Dr. David Hopkins who ‘wrote’ the book titled Beringia, published by Stanford press. It contained numerous papers by Dave and others on the evidence for an exposed land bridge.<br /><br />In the book and from personal communication w/Hopkins, he talks about an unusual phenomenon in Alaska during the ice ages; namely the existence of what they called a 'refugium'. The refugium sheltered a lot of Ice Age animals during the heavier glaciation in the rest of the country. This, along w/the existence of exposed tundra on the land bridge, strongly implies that the ice coverage for the area may have been more seasonal. Which of course would allow the area to be used as a land bridge.<br /><br />Perhaps warmer Pacific waters was the cause of the 'refugium' (Alaska current?)<br />Bradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05248274747386718753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-87643482787840232032017-08-13T20:49:37.459-07:002017-08-13T20:49:37.459-07:00Interesting thoughts MC, Del, and Iterry. Thanks f...Interesting thoughts MC, Del, and Iterry. Thanks for sharing. DavidKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17746832520246273307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-10640170270526206242017-08-13T17:40:48.600-07:002017-08-13T17:40:48.600-07:00Good thoughts Del. This is one of the theories as ...Good thoughts Del. This is one of the theories as to how the earth shifted during the ice ages. I like this one. I often wonder if the demise of the horse and other creatures was due to maybe Yellowstone blowing it's top. Just don't know. We do know the dating is screwed up and that has its own set of problems. <br /><br />I like MC's ideas about famine too. During the time of Abraham and later there was great world wide famine. That might be the cause too. <br /><br />Iterryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281119992916618849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-54290261021906227432017-08-13T14:14:57.837-07:002017-08-13T14:14:57.837-07:00I just had another thought. When Christ appeared t...I just had another thought. When Christ appeared to the Nephites, he quoted them quite a few scriptures from Isaiah. Isaiah is full of multiple layers, hidden meanings, and shadow fulfillments. Most of the prophesies contained in Isaiah are yet to have their final fulfillment, as most of them are ultimately referring to the very last days when the New Jerusalem will be established, the wicked are destroyed, and Christ comes again. <br /><br />Nephi, who quoted from Isaiah extensively, found many applications to his people, even though the literal fulfillment of Isaiah was to be thousands of years in the future.<br /><br />With that in mind is their a connection between the disappearance of horses in the Americas and the following verse Christ quoted to the Nephites?<br /><br />14 Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent; for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots;<br /><br />15 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strongholds;<br /><br />16 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thy land, and thou shalt have no more soothsayers;<br /><br />17 Thy graven images I will also cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee, and thou shalt no more worship the works of thy hands;<br /><br />18 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities.<br /><br />19 And it shall come to pass that all lyings, and deceivings, and envyings, and strifes, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, shall be done away.<br /><br />20 For it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that at that day whosoever will not repent and come unto my Beloved Son, them will I cut off from among my people, O house of Israel;<br /><br />Could the destruction of the wicked Nephites followed by the establishment of a Zion society be a shadow fulfillment of the establishment of the New Jerusalem?<br /><br />I think so.<br /><br />Is it not quite possible that the Nephite horses and chariots were destroyed as part of that shadow fulfillment? <br /><br />I would think so.MChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16617695434474157417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-10038145562996923972017-08-13T13:41:14.420-07:002017-08-13T13:41:14.420-07:00Great point Del. Obviously the Jaredites didn'...Great point Del. Obviously the Jaredites didn't eat all of their horses, since there was an abundance of them in the land when Nephi arrived. The horses were found in the land South not North, which had been reserved as hunting area for the Jaredites. This would lead one to conclude that horses were likely hunted as a food source during Jaredite times, in addition to their use as a beast of burden. <br /><br />It's also interesting that horses are not mentioned after the time that the Nephites had gathered their heards together in order to starve out the Gadianton robbers in 3 Nephi. The starving robbers would have very likely eaten any and all horses roaming around.<br /><br />Later during the famine which the prophet Nephi had prayed for, it's possible that the people ate the rest of the horses. Perhaps they left a few alive that then perished in cities that were burned, drowned, or otherwise destroyed during the destruction at the time of Christ's death. <br /><br />Then again they could have been hunted to extinction by the Lamanites during the civil war period as you suggested.<br /><br />Regardless, there are plenty of reasonable explanations for their disappearance besides sudden unverifiable climate change. <br /> Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-40702838796791873182017-08-13T11:37:41.902-07:002017-08-13T11:37:41.902-07:00MC: Along this line, keep in mind that the civil w...MC: Along this line, keep in mind that the civil war between the Lamanites after the annihilation of the Nephites at Cumorah lasted for at least 36 years (385-421 A.D.) and since after that time “there was no end in sight” we can assume that this war lasted for a lengthy period after that. And since the Lamanites were not known to have ever subsisted on food made from the own hands (farming), it is likely they would have run out of food very quickly, even scavenging Nephite crops, etc., which would have been minimal in a short time, and no doubt every eatable thing was hunted and killed during these decades and if anything lived past then, no doubt it went further and further into the wild recesses where and not found, then or later. In addition, most ferel animals do not do well in the wild (some do) and extinction would be most likely.<br />Just as thought.<br />Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-48655581635201251922017-08-13T11:25:51.530-07:002017-08-13T11:25:51.530-07:00You are the geologist, but my understanding is tha...You are the geologist, but my understanding is that this occurred not only after, but directly in connection with the Flood. <br />First of all, we need to keep in mind that whenever a large land mass overlaps or even extends well into polar regions of the earth, ice can do nothing else but grow on it—obviously, ice caps cannot grow on deep oceans even in polar regions because they are eroded too rapidly by convection of warmer water beneath them. Thus, when stabilized and insulated by land masses, they always grow under a terrestrial polar environment simply because condensation (ice and snow) greatly exceeds vaporization, melting and iceberg sluff-off.<br />When these ice sheets (of the Wisconsin) were building up, the primordial continent (Pangaea) at high latitudes, both north and south, was subsiding regularly under every-increasing polar ice loads while at lower latitudes it was uplifting. The total load eventually exceeded the strength of the continent and suddenly ruptured it from pole to pole. Immediately after this catastrophic continental rupture and drift, the shorelines found themselves approximately in the positions corresponding to maximum unbalance and they began a readjustment at a maximum rate at first with ever-decreasing rates of adjustment thereafter, as the global isostatic anomaly lessened exponentially—a situation that can be observed in all radio-carbon-calibrated depth vs. time results for these readjustments. All of this global shoreline readjustment probably began only about 4200-4300 years ago (after the Flood in the days of Peleg), certainly not 10,000 years ago, let alone 100 million years ago, etc. <br />Obviously, then, these caps ultimately grew so tremendous in size and weight that they eventually ruptured, driving continental fragments (our present-day continents) several thousand miles apart and, after finally melting, filled with their waters the great basin formed between the major continental blocks to give us our arctic and Atlantic basins. There were of course other waters and other factors involved, but this is merely meant to respond to your comment about the ice caps and the Flood period. In reality, I suspect these were basically contemporary factors that took a period of time (not geologic time) to complete.<br />Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-70641305773573618992017-08-13T10:44:04.193-07:002017-08-13T10:44:04.193-07:00Perhaps the prehistoric horses were not roaming f...Perhaps the prehistoric horses were not roaming free at all, but were all domesticated. In which case they could have been easily slaughtered during a great famine, when people became desperate for food. The book of Ether mentions very severe famines happening during the time of the Jaredites. There were was also a great famine among the Nephites and Lamanites a few decades before Christ's birth. If they considered the Llama and Alpaca to be of more use than horses and elephants, they may have slaughtered the horses for food. Just a thought off the top of my head.<br /><br />There is also evidence to suggest that the 7 year famine at the time of Joseph in Egypt was a world wide famine, which could explain the disappearence of the prehistoric horse throughtout the rest of the world. Again just a thought off the top of my head.Matthiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00373707992098571574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-55643572528549031802017-08-13T09:19:42.489-07:002017-08-13T09:19:42.489-07:00Interesting. Since we know that the dating system ...Interesting. Since we know that the dating system is wrong the end if the ice age would have been about a thousand years after Noah's flood or about 1500bc. Doesn't seem logical that the swift horse could be hunted to extinction but what other explanation is there?Iterryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14281119992916618849noreply@blogger.com