tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post705502458731684867..comments2023-11-02T03:08:07.417-07:00Comments on NephiCode: Did Moroni Hide the Plates in the Hill Cumorah?Delhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-7121028359356119922010-09-20T19:32:49.534-07:002010-09-20T19:32:49.534-07:00It is also possible that the writings of some prop...It is also possible that the writings of some prophets in Judah were not placed on the brass plates during the period under consideration, but of this we have no way of knowing. After the fall of Samaria, in 721 BC, it is very probable that most Jewish prophetical writings were engraved on the brass plates, assuming, of course, that Laban's immediate forebears came to Jerusalem as we has already been stated. It is a fact of considerable importance in biblical studies that the Book of Mormon indicates the presence on the brass plates of more scripture than that contained in our entire Bible (1 Nephi 13:23—26). Considering the fact that these plates recorded Hebrew scripture written only before the year 600 B.C., we have ample testimony to the loss of much scripture between that date and the present time.<br /><br />When Lehi had searched the brass plates, he was filled with the Spirit and began to prophesy to the effect that the day would come when they should be made known unto all kindreds, tongues, and people who were of his seed (1 Nephi 5:17-18). Moreover, he prophesied that the brass plates should never perish or be dimmed by time (1 Nephi 5:19). We know, therefore, that many unknown or hitherto corrupted texts of Hebrew scripture will be restored to the world in correct form. To those of us who are interested in the study of the Bible, this is a comforting and even a thrilling prospect.<br /><br />And finally, your last question: "My question is if the brass plates were written in this reformed Egyptian.. why do they not have records of this kind of writing in Israel?" can be seen in that the Egyptian language was used in the northern kingdom as a carry over from Ephraim and Menassah (both Egyptian born) bringin those plates into Israel. What else might have existed in the northern kingdom before they were destroyed and led captive off to where no one today knows (Lost 10 Tribes) can only be conjectured. However, it would seem reasonable that other writings in Egyptian would have been then extant, but lost since the captivity and dispersement of the northern kingdom. Maybe some will return with the 10 tribes when they return. Who knows.<br /><br />I hope this answers your questions.Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-44986515057444563992010-09-20T19:28:24.561-07:002010-09-20T19:28:24.561-07:00In the Book of Mormon, King Benjamin's identif...In the Book of Mormon, King Benjamin's identification of the language of this record as Egyptian (Mosiah 1:4) introduces a further line of speculation. Could this record have originated as the family record of Joseph the son of Jacob. His wife was Egyptian. His sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, were Egyptian. That may have been the only language they knew. Of course, Joseph would have had a copy of the then extent scriptural record in Egyptian. Might not his family have continued to maintain that Egyptian (maybe reformed Egyptian) language record?<br /><br />Our Old Testament is the record of the tribe of Judah–it's the "Stick of Judah." Are the brass plates not at least part of the "Stick of Joseph"? If this view of the Brass Plates as the record of the tribe of Joseph is correct, then the Book of Mormon is but the continuation of a family history, which may have been begun by Joseph himself. The Book of Mormon would be the middle chapters of this history. Are not the Doctrine and Covenants and current church history the final chapters of this great family epoch?<br /><br />Nephi makes another statement about the brass plates that arrests our attention. He says, "And Laban also was a descendant of Joseph, wherefore he and his fathers had kept the records" (1 Nephi 5:16). These words seem to indicate that the recording of the Hebrew scriptures on the brass plates had begun many generations before Laban's time. Furthermore, it would be kept in the senior tribe of Israel, that is to say, in the tribe of Ephraim (see Genesis 48:5, 13—20; 1 Chronicles 5:1—2). Laban may well have been a descendant of Joseph through Ephraim. We may properly ask ourselves how it happened that Laban—and Lehi's family, for that matter, inasmuch as they were descendants of Joseph through Manasseh—happened to be living in Jerusalem. The tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh, as the reader is well aware, had been allied generations before with the northern kingdom of Israel, not with Judah in the south. <br /><br />The northern kingdom of Israel fell to the Assyrians when its capital of Samaria capitulated to Sargon II in 721 B.C., just over 120 years before Lehi left Jerusalem. The forebears of Laban may well have fled to Jerusalem to prevent the sacred records from falling into alien hands. Lehi's grandfather or great-grandfather may have left his northern home for Jerusalem in order to prevent his children from intermarrying or making religious compromises with the foreigners brought into the land by the Assyrians. Such a course would not be unreasonable on the part of many devout families.<br /><br />If the brass plates had been kept by Laban's ancestors in the tribe of Ephraim as early as the united kingdom under Saul, David, and Solomon, it would be of great interest to know their history and that of any other sacred records subsequent to the division which took place after Solomon's death; it will be remembered that the northern confederation of tribes followed Jeroboam, and the southern kingdom of Judah remained under Rehoboam (1 Kings 11:29; 12:24). What happened to the keeping of sacred records when the Israelites became sharply divided on political grounds—so much so that the two nations were enemies? <br /><br />(see following comment for conclusion—too long for a single post)Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-16079247071485042882010-09-20T19:25:09.138-07:002010-09-20T19:25:09.138-07:00The Book of Mormon does not give us a lot of infor...The Book of Mormon does not give us a lot of information about the origins of the plates of brass. Nephi said that: “Laban also was a descendant of Joseph, wherefore he and his fathers had kept the records” (21 Nephi 5:16). Since the plates in the north would have been kept by the senior family, the Ephraimites, this would make Laban an Ephraimite. We know that tribes of Ephraim, as well as Menassah, were in the northern kingdom so how did they come to be living in Jerusalem? First of all, the brass plates, on which may be found lost scripture, may have been the official scripture of the ten tribes.The Brass Plates contained the following:<br /><br />• The record of the Jews down to the days of Zedekiah, including the genealogies of the people and the prophecies of the holy prophets, among which are the words of Isaiah and portions of Jeremiah.<br />• The law of Moses, in its perfect form, and the five books of Moses–Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.<br />• They contain the writings of Joseph who was sold into Egypt, than which few have been greater, and on them is found the mysteries of God and the commandments he has given to the children of men.<br />• They contain books of holy scripture of which the world does not dream, including the writings of Zenock, Neum, And Zenos.<br /><br />What interests us more than the books included on the brass plates is the tone and tenor and general approach to the gospel and to salvation that they set forth. They are gospel oriented and speak of Christ and the various Christian concepts, which the world falsely assumes to have originated with Jesus and the early apostles. Sidney B. Sperry suggests that “the prophets in both nations probably paid little attention to the political lines of division, but it is improbable that all of them had their words recorded in the scriptures of both nations. … The Brass Plates may well have been the official scripture of the Ten Tribes. It is probable that some prophets wrote on these plates whose writings may not have been recorded on the records kept in Judah. Were Zenos, Zenock, Neum, and Ezias … among them?” Also, other migrations occurred before the destruction, and Laban’s ancestors may have settled in Jerusalem during one of those. The Old Testament mentions one particular migration during the reign of Asa, one of the most righteous Judean kings. Many from Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon left the northern kingdom for Judah when they saw that God was with King Asa 2 Chronicles 15:9).<br /><br />As to how these plates of the northern kingdom came to be in Jerusalem, scholars now believe that a significant number of Israelites fled the Northern Kingdom, seeking refuge in Judah. Their evidence is consistent with Dr. Sperry's speculation–they brought Scriptures with them and those Scriptures were different from the Scripture of Judah. A further insight regarding the brass plates prophets is found in a comment of Mormon, in 3 Nephi 10:16. There had been great persecution of the believers prior to the crucifixion of Christ and his appearance to the Nephites. Mormon, acknowledging that this was a fulfillment of prophecy, declared, "Yea, the prophet Zenos did testify of these things, and also Zenock spake concerning these things, because they testified particularly concerning us, who are the remnant of their seed.”<br />Note Mormon's identification of the Nephites as remnants of the seed of the Brass Plate prophets, Zenos and Zenock. These were tribe of Joseph prophets. Sperry assumes that there must have been separate records and suggests the outlandish, yet almost obvious possibility, "the brass plates may well have been the official scripture of the ten tribes." That is, the brass plates may have been the master copy, the original, of the Northern Kingdom scripture.<br /><br />(See next comment – too large for one comment post)Delhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08982095508142923740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-22572056231824409542010-09-20T16:28:00.503-07:002010-09-20T16:28:00.503-07:00Del,
In reading your book (LNSM)page 367 you stat...Del,<br /><br />In reading your book (LNSM)page 367 you state: "The 2nd language was Egyptian. Both Lehi and Nephi knew this language which was used solely for the purpose of keeping the written record on the plates, including being the language of the brass plates."<br /><br />My question is if the brass plates were written in this reformed Egyptian.. why do they not have records of this kind of writing in Israel?<br /><br />I guess no one has been able to translate the Anthon transcript that has a sample of the characters from the Book of Mormon. If it is similar to the plates of brass then there should also be other documents out there that are very similar?MrNiromhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05039727643441733612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5948352943362975805.post-60287018645466581152010-09-20T00:29:49.912-07:002010-09-20T00:29:49.912-07:00Del,
It is sometimes interesting that people forg...Del,<br /><br />It is sometimes interesting that people forget just how powerful God is. The idea that God would "move" the plates at all seems ridiculous for many. It seems that often he always has man do the moving. So in that light, many assume that it was Moroni who just had to deposit the plates exactly where Joseph had retrieved them. <br /><br />Perhaps he did.. perhaps he did not. We don't know. But this we do know... it is conceivable that God did do the moving of the plates.<br /><br />In Joseph Smith's testimony concerning the plates.. it has been told that the first time he was at the hill.. he took the plates from the box, put them on the ground next to him, and then covered the box that was still in the ground with a stone to protect the other treasures it contained. Nevertheless, when he looked back at where he has set the plates.. they were gone. They had disappeared. And Joseph found them once again inside the box with the rock on top of it.<br /><br />So here.. the plates moved from outside the box next to Joseph.. to back inside the box buried in the ground. <br /><br />Do we now disbelieve this account because God does not move objects? Or do we realize that this account is true and the Lord can do whatsoever he wants... even to have the plates move from one location to another.<br /><br />I think people get too caught up in the particulars that don't have a clear answer.. and dismiss other things that really do.<br /><br />For example.. I was surprised to find the tales in your book about the people who currently live in then area of the promise land and the legends they speak about and how close it is to the story line in the Book of Mormon. Now some critic will be saying that Joseph had access to these legends and wrote a book based on them. :-( You can't win even when you are winning.MrNiromhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05039727643441733612noreply@blogger.com