Nephi gives us a clue as to the direction they traveled when they left Bountiful and set sail into Irreantum when he said the ship he had built, which was not built after the manner of men (1 Nephi 18:2), was a sailing ship with a fixed sail designed to run before the wind (1Nephi 18:8,9). Obviously, then to find the Land of Promise, looking for cities and rivers is meaningless until we find out where the winds would have taken his ship.
A careful study of the Dominant Winds in the Arabian Sea show that from January to June they blow south by southwest from the coast of the Arabian peninsula toward Africa and Madagascar. As they pass Madagascar, they swirl to the south and southeast toward the southern portion of the Indian Ocean, where they flow into the Prevailing Westerlies and West Wind Drift that sweep to the east, passing south of New Zealand and out across the Pacific Ocean. Since the winds in the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean blow inland, in the opposite direction from July to December, it would seem logical that the Lehi Colony could only have set sail during the first six months of the year. Later, from July to December, the winds would have driven their craft back toward the land.
In addition to the dominant winds blowing southwest in the Arabian sea from January to June, there are monsoon winds that blow to the east of the African Coast and Madagascar. These monsoon winds blow south from November to February, and north from April to September. This suggests that the Lehi Colony would have had to leave Bountiful sometime between January and April.
And once in the water, the winds would have driven them in a single direction, and that was to the Southern Ocean, then past Australia and New Zealand, and across the Pacific to the Western Hemisphere. From there, northward in the Humboldt (Peruvian) Current to the 30ยบ south latitude where the winds and currents die out completely and landfall would be essential. If the ship stayed out to sea, eventually the winds and currents pick up and would have taken the ship back across the Pacific in the gyre of the South Equatorial Current toward the west.
Before anyone picks a site for the Land of Promise, one must determine where Lehi’s ship, given Nephi’s descriptive information, would have sailed. One cannot just say a ship could have sailed anywhere in 600 B.C. “driven forth before the wind.” Not even experienced seamen could travel across the Pacific from west to east, as Mesoamerican Theorists like to claim Lehi did, as late as the 16th-Century, let alone in 600 B.C.
The premise is wrong.
ReplyDeleteThey sailed out via the Mediterranean Sea:
http://bookofmormongeography.org/old-world
"And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction" (1 Nephi 16:13) "And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the Red Sea" (1 Nephi 16:14) "And we did again take our journey traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning: (1 Nephi 16:33) "And we did travel nearly eastward from that time forth" (1 Nephi 17:1). With this end point reached along the Arabian Sea, it would obviously be difficult to set sail from the Mediterranean Sea. No other scriptural reference suggests in any way any other location of embarkation for the Jaredites or Mulekites.
ReplyDeleteBOMG…I looked at your site. Interesting that you and Aston draw a semi-circle for the route of Lehi when there is no mention of the colony ever turning north along Aqabah, and for what purpose? At such a point they would have been over twice as far from the Mediterranean and they certainly would not have sailed from there. To leave from the Mediterranean, which was heavily trafficked, even in 600 B.C. would hardly be in keeping with the Lord's promise to Lehi that no one would know of the Land of Promise, for sailing through the Gates of Hercules in this period of time would be well noticed and a curiosity created that may well have led others to follow. Besides, tracing the route of the Israelites makes no sense. The Israelites were headed toward the land of their inheritance, in Palestine. The journey across Sinai was for an entirely different reason than Lehi’s purpose to reach the sea and build a ship. And to go from the southern tip of the Dead Sea clear over to Egypt, then down the western finger of the Red Sea (Suez), then northward up the western finger (Aqabah) for any reason to reach a Sea is nonsensical. Had there been a purpose in this, surely Nephi would have mentioned it. And certainly he would have mentioned turning such directions as this requires when he mentioned his complete compass directions to the sea.
ReplyDeleteI can see where you believe your direction is correct, but to claim someone else’s premise is wrong with such flimsy ideas is a reach. By the time of the Jaredites, others had settled along the area of the Mediterranean in Palestine for about two hundred years. It would have been hard for the Jaredites to set out across the Mediterranean for three reasons. 1) They would have obviously been observed, yet no traditions, myths, legends, or record of such exists, and 2) more importantly, winds do not blow from east to west across the Mediterranean in such a manner as described, and if they did by the force of the Lord, the waters moving through the narrow Gibraltar Strait have always been very difficult. Submarines have found that moving submerged through this area of cross-currents (and different at different levels) is extremely hazardous, even with today’s technology. Consider eight unsteerable barges making this trip. Then, too, the currents across the Atlantic, discovered by Columbus, to be reached by the Jaredites would have to take a left (south) turn down to the Canaries, then a right (west) turn across the Atlantic. While this could be done in a sailing ship in 1492, none sailing that coastal area had ever been driven out by a current to the Canaries. The Jaredites were subject to currents driven by the winds. Turning south along the African coast would not take the current-driven Jaredites to the Canaries to pick up the westward current, they would just keep going down the African coast. 3) Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, movement across the desert between Mesopotamia and Palestine as drawn on the map you show, looks good on paper if you have never been across that desert. But even into the last century, movement across the “Great Desert” could only be done from water hole to water hole, and this is not a known path, even today. Even Abraham went well up the Euphrates area of Mesopotamia about as far as possible before looping over the short distance to this land of his inheritance. Direct routes were not something people did, not in 2200 BC or in 600 BC or not till long after the areas were more known by the Bedouins.
ReplyDeleteDid you know that when prophets from Jerusalem fled because of Jewish mobs trying to kill them, they almost always traveled to Egypt. And these Jews followed them clear to Egypt and brought them back to be killed at Jerusalem. Remarkable that Aston and you believe Lehi would have been led by the Lord to escape along that path so well known to those who sought to kill the prophets.
ReplyDeleteKimberly—Good comment. I might even add what the Lord said to Lehi… “Blessed art thou Lehi, because of the things which thou hast done; and because thou has been faithful and declared unto this people the things which I commanded thee, behold, they seek to take away thy life. And it came to pass that the Lord commanded my father, even in a dream, that he should take his family and depart into the wilderness.” (2 Nep 2:1-2)
ReplyDeleteKarlton: I had to remove your post. We do not allow name-calling or swear words on this site. If you have such an issue with BOMG over his views of Lehi landing in North American, I suggest you write to him personally.
ReplyDeleteKimberly & Jennifer: Don’t forget that Lehi’s FIRST stop after leaving Jerusalem, was along the shore of the Red Sea (2 Nephi 2:5). To go from Jerusalem to the head of the Suez branch as that guy BOMG's map shows on his website, Lehi would have had to travel a considerable distance and in a direction heavily traveled in that day. This movement from Jerusalem to Egypt was a main thoroughfare for the day, a roadway that Egyptians traveled to and through Israel to get to Assyria and Babylonia, and the Babylonians traveled to get to Egypt. The wars fought over this route before 600BC are a known part of history. Hard to imagine going that way when people are seeking your life.
ReplyDeleteHi guys...neat posts. I think I'll weigh in here with another thought about this...Robert, we can take that further. The scripture says that Lehi “came down by the borders of the shore of the Red Sea” which means, using Joseph Smith’s language in the interpretation, down or south. However, to go where Aston and this BOMG says, he would have had to “come over” or go mostly west from Jerusalem.
ReplyDeleteWow. I looked at this before going to work this morning, but didn't have time to leave a post. Coming back on this evening, I am amazed at all the posts. This is really great. I am duly impressed that so many of you know so much. Wow. Maybe I can add a thought or two to this. By the way, I've noticed that BOMG has not responded to any post, and assume he won't, but in case he checks in here a gain, I'd like to ask the question: "Why bother to quote Nephi‘s writings about Moses and the children of Israel regarding a direction of their own travels. The only comparison that can be made between these two scripture thoughts is that Nephi was trying to teach his rebellious brothers that the same Lord who Moses trusted in was now directing Lehi (1 Nephi 17:44) and how great was the power and capability of the Lord (1 Nephi 17:46). It seems to me that if you are going to quote Nephi about travel and route, why not use the ones that were quoted above in this original thread regarding directions?"
ReplyDelete“Thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla were nearly surrounded by water” (Alma 22:32), and the Lamanites were “also on the west of the land of Zarahemla, in the borders by the seashore, and on the west in the land of Nephi, in the place of their father’s first inheritance, and thus bordering along by the seashore” (Alma 22:28). How is it that someone sailing from the Mediterranean would end up landing on the WEST SEA of an area almost completely surrounded by water? I think someone is lacking in reading or understanding the scriptures. Like this website so clearly states, Nephi left clues as to where they went and where they landed. The Great Lakes area of North America simply does not meet the criteria of the scriptures.
ReplyDeleteConnor: I can answer that one. If you go with Nephi’s description of the route of travel, then you have to leave from the Arabian Sea, and then you cannot reach the Great Lakes area of North America. So naturally, this BOMG and Aston and others like them must change the scriptural text in order to justify their silly location.
ReplyDeleteBOMG--Isn’t that a little arrogant, telling someone their premise is wrong? I went to your site, and frankly, found it wanting. If you are going to claim to have a site about Book of Mormon Geography, perhaps you might want to do some more research. Personally, I would recommend you buy the two books mentioned on this site, Lehi Never Saw Mesoamerica, and Who Really Settled Mesoamerica. You might not agree with them, but at least you will expand your knowledge on Book of Mormon geography that makes a lot more sense than what you have posted on your site, especially the scriptural part. These books all use scripture as the basis for all commentary, without any changes, stretches, or weird explanations.
ReplyDeleteThank you for all your great posts. But I think it is time to put this puppy to bed. There is a new thread to comment on every day.
ReplyDeleteI think it is important to note one thing here.
ReplyDelete1 Ne 18:21-22
21 And it came to pass after they had loosed me, behold, I took the compass, and it did work whither I desired it. And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord; and after I had prayed the winds did cease, and the storm did cease, and there was a great calm.
22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did guide the ship, that we sailed again towards the promised land.