Wednesday, September 29, 2010

What Seas Border the Land of Promise?

The Lehi Colony set sail from Bountiful on the ship Nephi built according to the instructions of the Lord (1 Nephi 8:1-2), they “put forth into the sea and were driven forth before the wind toward the promised land” (1 Nephi 18:8). After they had “been driven forth before the wind for many days” (1 Nephi 8:9), a mutiny arose and after some difficulty with Nephi’s older brothers and the sons of Ishmael, Nephi regained control of the ship and they “sailed again toward the promised land” (1 Nephi 8:22), and after a certain time, they “did arrive at the promised land” (1 Nephi 18:23), and after arriving in the land by ship, “they did begin to till the earth” and “plant seeds” which seeds they “brought from the land of Jerusalem” (1 Nephi 8:24).

These passages are quite clear on the following points:

1. Nephi’s ship was a weather-driven sailing ship and required the wind to propel it across the seas.

2. The winds drove the ship all the way to the land of promise.

3. The winds and sea currents driving the ship took them directly to the land of promise where they landed.

4. After landing, they cultivated the land and planted the seeds they had brought with them.

There is no mention, no indication, no suggestion or innuendo in Nephi’s description of their sailing to the Land of Promise that alters the above four points.

In addition, Jacob said and Nephi wrote down, that “the Lord has made the sea our path, and we are upon an isle of the sea” (2 Nephi 10:20). Which should clearly show that the Lehi Colony sailed across the sea and landed on their island, which was upon that very same sea. There is no indication of any kind to suggest anything different.

Jacob’s sermon to the Nephites was clearly meant to show them that though they were on a distant island in the middle of the sea, far away from Jerusalem, that others from the House of Israel had also been led away to distant isles. He said, “great are the promises of the Lord unto them who are upon the isles of the sea; wherefore as it says isles, there must needs be more than this, and they are inhabited also by our brethren” (2 Nephi 10:21).

Then, to make sure the Nephites listening understood they were not forgotten by the Lord, Jacob added, “And now behold, the Lord remembereth all them who have been broken off, wherefore he rememebreth us also” (2 Nephi 10:22).

There seems little doubt that the sea the Nephites traveled across to the promised land was the same sea that bordered the promised land, for there is no suggestion otherwise of any kind in scripture to suggest the Land of Promise, the isle Jacob describes, was not upon the very sea they had traveled to get there.

Obviously, the Nephites set sail into the sea they called Irreantum, or “Many Waters” (1 Nephi 17:5). This body of water that merges with several seas or oceans, includes the Arabian Sea, the Indian Ocean, the Southern Ocean, the Pacific Ocean, and once beyond South America, merges with the Atlantic Ocean—truly a sea of “many waters.” In the Book of Mormon this sea is also described as the "Great Sea," "Great Water," "Deep," and "Great Deep." These oceans or sea are the only way a sailing ship could get from the southern coast of Arabia, the land they called Bountiful, to the Land of Promise. Yet, in a work entitled “True Book of Mormon Geography” of New York, a blogger claims that: “The Great Sea does not border Book of Mormon lands.”

(See the Next Post “The Great Sea, the Great Deep” for a further understanding of the oceans or seas that made up the Land of Promise West Sea, East Sea, North Sea and South Sea)


  1. I have spoken with one of the NY theorists recently.. Sister Olive. She really is a sweet person and feels that her theory and map are correct. I look at it.. I study it.. but I just can not see how she comes up with what she does.. and she really believes she is following the scriptures. As she put it to me.. over 300 of them!

    Of course Mr H38 Virus had much to say about her model. And Mr H38 Virus believes that any model that 1. Is not in the US or 2. Must not be connected to the seas.. does not fit his version of the land of promise. So he does not even waste his time to actually look at someone's model. The more I look at other models.. the more the Andean model fits without being forced.

    I would suppose that the hardest thing about the Andean model.. along with some others.. is wanting to know without a doubt what the land looked like "before" the crucifixion of Jesus in 34 AD.

    I had a brother in my ward that told me he felt that the Lord sometimes likes to hide things. He brought up Noah's Ark as an example. So he felt the land of promise was the same. When I showed him your map of how the majority of South America was hidden when it was underwater.. it peaked his curiosity.

  2. Olive's map was in an earlier post of mine and, like you said, simply does not fit. A person can claim over 300 comparisons, but the important thing is the non-comparisons. And her map is full of non-comparisons. The same with H38. I called this blog and website the Nephi Code as a play on words because it is very apparent that Nephi gave us a complete understanding of where he went, how he got there, where he landed, and what he found there. Any non-comparison with that information places any model in suspect. Then, of course, you have 2 Nephi 10:20 and Jacob's isle.

    As for the land prior to 34 A.D., it is well known among geologists as I have outlined in my book. The Andes mountains "mountains which are great" according to Samuel the Lamanite, were pushed up at one time and, according to recent knowledge, were pushed up in recent times. If you take the age of the Earth according to the Lord, recent times equates to that period of activity in the LOP mentioned in 3 Nephi. Since science claims the earth is 4.55 billion years old, recent times to them is millions of years ago. That is why I wrote the book "Scientific Fallacies & Other Myths," to show the reality of the Lord's time over that of science. If the mainstream scientific world was not anti-God, anti-Christ, anti-religion, we would have a verification of that fact well known. The same can be said of Noah's Ark. Mainstream science, media, etc., rejects the very idea of a cataclysmic event (the Flood) and, therefore, any idea of an Ark buried in the mountains of Turkey/Armenia is science-fiction to them and relegated to non-news. However, there has been enough private (poorly funded) work there to show the reality of a buried Ark where it slipped down into the valley from the mountain peaks, etc. There are villages named after Noah in that area, a burial site claimed to be that of Noah, etc. To those who live in that area, this is all very well know and not "hidden." It is "hidden" to us, because no one outside that group of knowledgeable people is willing to take this all seriously and report it.

    Contrary to what your friend said, the Lord does not "hide" things from us, he makes all things available for our knowledge; however, man, with his prejudices and bias, simply cannot see what the Lord has made available to us. After all, the Land Southward was not "hidden" from the Jaredites--just not available to them or their interest. And the Western Hemisphere was not "hidden" from the Europeans, they just did not have the technology nor the knowledge to find it until the Lord opened it up for them.

    I am always weary of anyone with a model of anything that has to be changed, altered, or explained away because it is not an obvious match. Like you said, the Andean area matches scripture--far more then most people realize. Had I the room, I could have included far more in my book than I did on the subject. Olive, H38, Sorenson, Allen, et all, have to really reach to try and fit their ideas and models into the BOM scriptural record. That is not the Lord's way. He places knowledge before us and some find it and others have no idea it is there.

  3. Mr. Nirom: For whatever it is worth, my mom took an anthropology class from John L. Sorensen at BYU where he discussed his theory and model of Mesoamerica some time back. An aunt went on tour to Mesoamerica with Joseph Allen and another later with his son. Both report that Sorenson and Allen were very nice people, very friendly, and very knowledgeable. They all talk about their ideas matching the Book of Mormon scripture. But despite their being nice and thinking they are right on with scripture--they are both wrong, just as is Sister Olive.

  4. Funny, I took a class from Sorenson in my youth and found him stuffy, reserved and arrogant :)