Gardner: “And they began to know that the Son of God must shortly appear; yea, in fine, all the people upon the face of the whole earth from the west to the east, both in the land north and in the land south, were so exceedingly astonished that they fell to the earth. (3 Ne. 1:17).”
Response: Gardner uses this example to say that the sun rises in the West and sets in the East. However, as it says, from the west to the east, both in the land north and in the land south—this is a description of the Land of Promise, not the movement of the sun.
Gardner: “And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east. (Hel. 3:8).”
Response: Again, this is a description of the Land of Promise. The face of the whole earth refers to the Land of Promise when the Nephite prophets are talking. In numerous locations this phraseology is used and when reading it, the context is generally quite obvious. As an example: “And there was also a great and terrible tempest; and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder” (3 Nephi 8:6) and “because of the tempest and the whirlwinds and the thunderings and the lightnings, and the exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth” (3 Nephi 8:12), both of these refer to the calamity that struck the Land of Promise, where “highways were broken up, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough” (3 Nephi 8:13).
It has nothing at all to do with the rising and setting of the sun as Gardner claims.
Gardner thren makes a weak attempt to clarify his point, acknowledging the verses seem like they are about the land and not the sun.
Gardner: “Although the “from-to” construction implies movement, the cases of “from the west to the east” do not come in connection with any movement but rather with descriptions of “the face of the whole earth.” With only two examples it is a weak hypothesis, but I suggest that there was a literary reversal used in describing the “whole earth.” I believe that by reversing the known path of the sun, it placed “the face of the whole earth” firmly in the metaphorical rather than the physical realm.”
“Confucius
say, “Man who stand on weak hypothesis stand on very shaky ground”
Should we then consider this directional statement as a metaphor? “And now, behold, the Lamanites could not retreat either way, neither on the north, nor on the south, nor on the east, nor on the west, for they were surrounded on every hand by the Nephites” (Helaman 1:31). Should we then interpret this as a metaphor and that the Lamanties were not really surrounded, but that there were Nephites around them?
Who decides what is literal and what is metaphorical?
Gardner: “In contrast to the movement implied when using the phrase “from the east to the west,” the common usage for the other two “directions” is “on the north/on the south.” (3 Nephi 1:17, Helaman 3:8) There are no instances of “from the north to the south” or “from the south to the north,” not even in the verses describing the whole earth.”
Response: That is inaccurate. There are two from the north to the south verses: “From the land southward to the land northward,” and “from the north sea to the south sea,” which is no different than from the east to the west sea, or the east sea to the west, etc.
Mormon tells us: “And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the land northward, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the sea south to the sea north, from the sea west to the sea east” (Helaman 3:8, emphasis added). That is such a simple statement, that no amount of comment from Gardner or other Mesoamericanists trying to skew directions can change it. Nor can a case be made that it is different from the east to the west or the west to the east statements Gardner cited earlier.
Joseph Smith translating with Emma as
scribe—his education and grammar would have been weak at a time when there were
few rules for grammar; however, Nephi, wrote in plainness and instructed others
to do the same
Gardner: “For example, Alma 46:17: “And it came to pass that when he had poured out his soul to God, he named all the land which was south of the land Desolation, yea, and in fine, all the land, both on the north and on the south—A chosen land, and the land of liberty.”
After
making his title of liberty banner, Moroni prayed earnestly for guidance and
success
Nor does he ignore the Land of Nephi in his speech—calling it the Land South, and the Nephite lands, the Land North, i.e., he divides the Land of Promise—the Land Southward at the time, into the two basic divisions that then existed, the land of the Nephites (land North) and the land of the Lamanites (Land South), which is the same division mentioned in Helaman: “Now the land south was called Lehi and the land north was called Mulek, which was after the son of Zedekiah; for the Lord did bring Mulek into the land north, and Lehi into the land south” (Helaman 6:10).
That is, Mulek was brought into the land where Mosiah found them, i.e., Zarahemla (Omni 1:16), and Lehi into the land in the far south: “on the west in the land of Nephi, in the place of their fathers' first inheritance, and thus bordering along by the seashore” (Alma 22:28).
(See the next post, “The Mystifying Rationale of Mesoamerican Directions – Part XXI,” and the continuation of Gardner’s rationale of the Mesoamericanists’ skewed Land of Promise, and the various meanings of words that Joseph Smith used in the translation and their accuracy, and which are literal statements and which are metaphorical and actually factual statements)
Gardner is arguing there was no destruction as described in 3 Nephi. They can't accept the rising of the Andes because it goes against their old earth, uniformitarianism dogma. In reality as you are clearly pointing out, they simply do not believe scripture as translated.
ReplyDeleteNone of the things Gardner says are very clear to me. Nothing really proves anything. It is like he wants us to accept that his "arm-waving" that something is there somehow proves his point.
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