Answers to Reader Comments - Part III

 Following are some of the comments or questions we have received from readers:

Comment #1: “I am very much a proponent of a more limited geography, and I believe the best available evidence places the core narrative of the Book of Mormon squarely in Mesoamerica as John L. Sorenson places it” Marion T.

Response: Since Sorenson and other Mesoamericanist theorists have to turn the map of Mesoamerica about 90º in order to make the directions of his theory line up with Mormon’s descriptions in the Book of Mormon, this is hardly the  best available evidence of the Land of Promise descriptions available—not only that, but several other problems exist with this theory as we have record continually in this bog, and in the book: Lehi Never Saw Mesoamerica.

Comment #2: “There were likely countless Nephite and Lamanite settlements spread across the continent, including within the so-called “Heartland,” whose history is not contained in the Book of Mormon; they are simply external to the text. It doesn’t make them any less Nephite or Lamanite, it just means their history is not recorded in that book” Wm. T.

Nephite movement over the centuries into the north

 

Response: We have been writing for years that Lehi landed at 30º South Latitude, the Bay of Coquimbo in Chile, from there Nephi fled northward to where he finally settled in an area they called the Land of Nephi (2 Nephbi 5:8), and over time from there to the Land Northward. Hagoth then sent ships “to a land which was northward” (Alma 63:4,6) full of immigrants with provisions and settled there (Central America), who then migrated overland into Mesoamerica, then the southwest land now called the United States, and finally northward into the central U.S. However, the Book of Mormon story is involved only with the area of first landing and the migration northward into Peru (Land Southward) and Ecuador (Land Northward).

Comment #3: “I believe we do ourselves a disservice with the either/or mentality when it comes to issues of geography in the Book of Mormon. We often play the game of “General Authority Chess”; Elder So-And-So said this! Oh yeah? Well President Such-and-Such said this! We pit the words of one early Saint against another, chasing each other around the chess board trying to check each other but never really able to end the game” B.E.

Response: We can avoid playing this game if we trust the Book of Mormon and use it for the basis, description, and understanding of any point and use the scriptural record for all our information. Relying on who said what is of little value—knowing what the early prophets wrote is of major importance.

Comment #4: “The Mesoamerican evidence put forth by John Lloyd Stephens and Frederick Catherwood in Incidents of Travel in Central America, Chiapas, and Yucatan verifies this area. Stephens and Catherwood’s researches in Central America abundantly testify of this. The stupendous ruins, the elegant sculpture, and the magnificence of the ruins of Guatemala, and other cities, corroborate this statement, and show that a great and mighty people—men of great minds, clear intellect, bright genius, and comprehensive designs inhabited this continent. Their ruins speak of their greatness; the Book of Mormon unfolds their history” Craig W.

Response: First of all, neither (left) John Lloyd Stephens (who was born the same year as Joseph Smith) or Frederick Catherwood were members of the Church. Stephens was an explorer, writer, and diplomat, and also a pivotal figure in the rediscovery of Maya civilization throughout Middle America, and also in the planning of the Panama railroad. It is doubtful Catherwood knew anything of Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon.

Secondly, the early Saints along the trek of Zion’s Camp, upon hearing the story of the Lamanite Zelph and Onandagus logically would have thought in terms of the Book of Mormon. They would have been thrilled to know there was finally evidence of lamanites in direct opposition to all the criticism of the people of the region who thought the record was nothing more than fallacious writing, made up by Joseph Smith and possibly others. Anything that would have supported the authenticity of the Book of Mormon and defended its accuracy would have been of great interest to these me. Much of what they saw was interpreted in that manner.

Consequently, while the majority of the seven first hand records we have from those on the trek stated that Joseph Smith said: “From the eastern sea to the Rocky Mountains” became in the minds of some thinking in terms of the Book of Mormon recorded that it was “From the Sea East to the Rocky Mountains,” or “from the Hill Cumorah to the Rocky Mountains.” In addition, in these different journal accounts, Zelph is described as a “warrior,” “chieftain,” “soldier,” “officer” or “General,” and also that Zelph was a “white Lamanite,” “righteous warrior” “a man of God,” or a “righteous man under the prophet Onandagus.”

The cause of his death was due to “a battle,” “a battle with other Lamanites,” “final battle between the Nephites and Lamanites,” or “during the last great struggle of the Lamanites and Nephites.” Indeed, change is seen in: “The statement that the battle in which Zelph was killed occurred “among the Lamanites” became “with the Lamanites.” Also, “Zelph’s bones belonged to a man of large stature,” whereas other accounts claim that “he was short and stout.”

Obviously, if “Cumorah” had been stated by Joseph, it stands to reason that more than one person would have heard and recorded it. Since others did not, it seems reasonable to suggest that this was an opinion inserted later, evidently by Wilford Woodruff (left) that, to him, made sense later when Book of Mormon terms were better understood.

Third, it is of interest that one of the witnesses named Reuben McBride—who was 31 years old at the time of Zion’s Camp and had been baptized the year before. After Zion’s Camp, McBride became the custodian of the Church property and the Temple in Kirtland. A footnote as to the character of the man is shown in the incident when he was subpoenaed to court to give testimony concerning the whereabouts of the Prophet Joseph, which he adamantly refused, saying, “I refuse to give such testimony, and rather than be thus imposed upon, I will lie in your jail until the maggots carry my body through the keyhole of your door.” Later, he was the first person to be baptized for the dead in the font of the Nauvoo Temple—his journal entry of the vision about Zelph is the closest to the date of the event, while others are several days or weeks later, penned in his journal that Zelph: "was known from the Atlantic to the Rocky Mountains” which has no mention of Cumorah or eastern sea, suggesting Joseph’s mention of the breadth of knowledge about the ancient prophet was from the Atlantic (eastern sea) to the Rocky Mountains. In addition, Levi Hancock’s journal entry said that: “Zelpf was a white Lamanite who fought with the people of Onandagus for freedom.” Moses Martin wrote in his journal: "Soon after this Joseph had a vision and the Lord shewed him that this man was once a mighty Prophet and many other things concerning his dead which had fallen no doubt in some great battles.”

The point is, that what seemed quite evident to the early Saints, looking for evidences of the authenticity of the Book of Mormon, interpreted finds not so much to a geographical area as they did its existence. John Lloyd Stephens’ accounts and Frederick Catherwood’s drawings, showed not so much an area of importance to these Early Saints, or even to Joseph Smith, but that an ancient and advanced civilization once existed in the Americas, countering the critics disdain for such an idea before such a discovery. The Stephens and Catherood’s book and drawings merely authenticated such a civilization.

Comment #4: “To proponents of the Heartland theory, the comment Joseph made regarding his letter to Emma while he was on the Zion’s march, said that they crossed the Plains of the Lamanites. This is pretty open and shut. Joseph makes it plain that this was Nephite territory. Mesoamerican proponents, on the other hand, have suggested that perhaps Joseph was simply conjecturing or sharing his opinion rather than declaring this information was received by revelation” Ted R.

Response: The individuals and geographic features that are named in these accounts of Lamanites in North America are nowhere to be found in the text of the Book of Mormon. They are external to its history. There is no Zelph and no Onandagus named in the Book of Mormon. The is no specific area called “The Plains of the Nephites.” As the Apostle John A. Widtsoe suggested, “Zelph probably dated from a later time when the Nephites and Lamanites had been somewhat dispersed and had wandered over the country” (John A. Widtsoe, “Is Book of Mormon Geography Known?” Improvement Era 53, July 1950)