Answers to Reader Comments - Part VI

Following are some of the comments or questions we have received from readers:

Comment #1: “In my studies, it shows that the Land of Promise in Mesoamerica, though a few archaeological sites depict a decline in civilization at 350 A.D., many other sites there show a continued and dramatic growth over the next 400 years” Bruce A.

One can only wonder what type of dramatic growth could possibly take place when the entire Land of Promise was in a state of siege, with the Lamanites chasing the Nephites northward and finally annihilating them in 385 AD, in the Land of Cumorah. To consider that the Lamanites, in this state of debauchery could be building, trading and involved in commerce with one another while at the same time being involved in a constant state of civil war among themselves for at least 40 years (Mormon 8:8), is hard to imagine. One of the problems building a Promised Land in Mesoamerica is that the dates there do not match those of the Book of Mormon.

Comment #2 “Mormon notes that “the more part of the Lamanites were convinced of [the truth] because of the greatness of the evidences which they had received.” (Helaman 5:50) As a result, “the Lamanite righteousness exceeded that of the Nephites, “because of their firmness and their steadfastness in faith” (Helaman 6:1). The Lamanites began to move freely among the Nephites, traveling to the Nephite city of Zarahemla and wherever they would among the Lamanites or the Nephites, and “thus they did have free intercourse one with another” (Helaman 6:8). In the midst of this openness among the Lamanites and Nephites, Nephi, the son of Helaman, goes northward among an unnamed people to preach to them. Indeed, not only Nephi but also the Lamanites go to the “people in the land northward” to preach “to the people” (Helaman 6:6). However, these “people in the land northward” are so wicked that Nephi cannot remain among them. Certainly, these people were neither Nephites nor Lamanites—so another people were in the land of promise when Lehi landed” Charles P.

Response: This point evidently originated with Blake T. Ostler (“DNA Strands in the Book of Mormon,” by, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Sunstone, 1987, p64). Then adding his own thoughts, the Reader added his own thoughts, he states: “This is another strong indication that there were indigenous others present in the Book of Mormon area, though it requires a careful reading to detect them.”

First of all, these were not unconverted Lamanites, for never did the Lamanites have power in the north countries north of the Nephites. Second, the careful reading required is to understand that not all Nephites were righteous. In fact, we are told that in the scriptural record “the Lamanite righteousness exceeded that of the Nephites, because of their firmness and their steadfastness in faith” (Helaman 6:1). Thus, we must assume that there were Nephites in need of spiritual improvement—and one of those places where this was most needed was evidently in the Land Northward.

These were Nephites that Nephi, Lehi, and some of the converted Lamanites were in the Land Northward to preach to wayward Nephites that had strayed far from the righteous path.

Another comment from this Reader:

Comments #2a : “It seems clear that the Jaredites and Mulekites both co-existed with the Nephites for more than 350 years without the Nephites knowing about them. The Mulekites in Zarahemla actually met Coriantumr—and until that time, they too did not know of the Jaredites. So it is clear that there were large populations of Jaredites and Mulekites in nearby regions contemporaneous with the Nephites, but the Nephites didn’t know anything about them for more than three hundred years”

Response: Regarding the Jaredites surviving catastrophic wars, three points should be made:

The prophet Ether delivers the Lord’s message to king Coriantumr

 

1) In the prophecy Ether delivers to Coriantumr, it states that if he did not end the war, all would die except him: “Otherwise they should be destroyed, and all his household save it were himself. And he should only live to see the fulfilling of the prophecies which had been spoken concerning another people receiving the land for their inheritance; and Coriantumr should receive a burial by them; and every soul should be destroyed save it were Coriantumr” (Ether 13:21, emphasis added).

2) We also need to understand that all the people (Jaredites) were involved: “And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether” (Ether 15:12, emphasis added); “Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive” (Ether 15:14, emphasis added).

3) Then, when the wars continued, the prophecy was fulfilled, and Coriantumr was the last man standing “And it came to pass that when they had all fallen by the sword, save it were Coriantumr and Shiz, behold Shiz had fainted with the loss of blood, and…when Coriantumr had leaned upon his sword, that he rested a little, he smote off the head of Shiz (Ether 15:29-30).

Thus, it is extremely clear that every Jaredite, except Coriantumr and Ether, was killed. Such beliefs as this reader and many other theorists believe are ill-founded. As an example, look at this further comment from this reader: “when Lehi arrives there are still Jaredites alive; and when the people of Zarahemla met Coriantumr, a Jaredite, some four hundred years after Lehi’s party touches the shore in the new land.”

It is difficult to see how any Jaredite survived when Ether states that every Jaredite was involved in the ongoing war that ended with only Coriantumr surviving.

Comment #3: “After lengthy studies of Mesoamerica, it is now known that the Lowland Maya did not invent writing in Mesoamerica. They simply adopted it from an earlier culture period between 600 BC and 50 AD” Allen

Since Allen also claims that the Maya were the Nephites, he is telling us that the Nephites adopted a written language from an earlier culture—the Olmecs (his Jaredites). How absurd. The Nephites used Reformed Egyptian to write the sacred record from the very beginning (1 Nephi 1:2), which Nephi learned from his father, Lehi. Moroni, 1,000 years later, said they were still using Hebrew and preferred it over the Reformed Egyptian writing they were forced to use on the plates because of lack of space.  It should be noted that when Moroni states that Hebrew was the writing language of choice (Mormon 8:8) after that 1,000-year period, and we know Nephi learned the Hebrew language from his father, consequently, that the Nephites would have been using Hebrew for most everything except engraving the sacred record. Where do these theorists get their ideas and theories? Evidently not from the Book of Mormon!

Comment #4: “feel that the geography of the Book of Mormon should be studied in conjunction with archaeological evidence, language associations, and cultural and traditional patterns” Matthew W.E.

Response: Actually, there is only one way to determine geographical locations in the Book of Mormon and that is to: 1) study the Book of Mormon; 2) set up a model of what is found in the scriptural record without reference to any place, country, map location, or area; 3) try to find a location (modern map area) that fits that model based upon scripture, either now or in the past; 4) see what archaeological evidence is found in that map area (without changing, altering or injecting added things into scripture); and 5) see what cultural evidences existed in that map area and compare that to cultural evidences found in scripture. The key is for all external evidences (archaeology, map location, area, culture, etc.) to fit the scriptural account without any changes, alterations, or additions whatsoever being made.  While nearly all Book of Mormon scholars say that is what they should do, all have fallen into the same trap of pre-determining a location: 1) and then trying to fit that pre-determined area of Central America, North America, etc., into scripture, which has resulted in changing scripture; 2) adding to scripture that which is not mentioned; 3) and altogether changing the record to fit this pre-conceived area and its so-called archaeological findings; 4) This, no doubt, because most, and those most vocal, were all taught and trained by the same mind-set from the beginning.