Explanation of the Land Which Was Northward

As in the last post, the following question was asked recently by a reader of this website, and this is the first chance I’ve had to answer it.

Question: “I appreciate your wonderful insights. Just a note though. The phrase “land which was northward” is also used in Alma 50:11, in reference to the land north of Bountiful, and in Alma 50:29 referring to the Land Northward to which Morianton fled. Alma 63:4 talks about the large company of men (you mention above) that go into the land northward and in verse 5 it says Hagoth built a ship. It seems to me those are 2 separate stories and highly unlikely that those 20,000 or so people went by ship. That was in the 37th year. In the 38th year, the first ship returns (also suggesting that Hagoth had only built one ship that 20,000 people must have walked to the land northward.) Verses 7-8 say the first ship then set out with provisions and were never heard of again. The people who were lost were those on this first ship (and possibly other ships with them) not the original 20,000 that went into the land northward” Bradley W.

Response: You have suggested two separate ideas here. The first is regarding the English structure or meaning of a verse: as in Alma 50:11, the sentence structure of the term “land which was northward,” is not a stand-alone statement as in Alma 63:4. As an example, in Alma 63:4, the statement is: “departed out of the land of Zarahemla into the land which was northward,” that is, “the land which was northward” is a land in and of itself, i.e., a noun. However, in Alma 50:11, the statement is “the Nephites possessing all the land northward, yea, even all the land which was northward of the land Bountiful, according to their pleasure,” in which “the land which was northward” is a description of a land, i.e., an adjective. That is, it is describing a land north of Bountiful, i.e., that land which was northward of the land Bountiful.”

In Alma 50:29, “Morianton put it into their hearts that they should flee to the land which was northward, which was covered with large bodies of water, and take possession of the land which was northward,” is still referring to the location described 18 verses earlier, in 50:11. That is, Morianton and his people were in the Land Southward, and were intending to flee into the Land Northward. The term that is important is the reference to the land which was northward. The word “to” means direction; movement toward a place; meaning attachment, connection, belonging, or possession. That is, from one place within an area to another place within that area. Whereas the word “into” indicates entry, that is, leaving one area and entering another area; that is, moving from inside to outside, or moving from one area to another, different area. Thus, departed out of the Land of Zarahemla and into another land, i.e., out of the Land of Promise into another land.

Stated differently, those who entered into Hagoth’s ship departed out of the Land Southward, that is they left the land mass of the Land of Promise and went to another land. What land? A land which was northward.

Hagoth had a shipyard where he built many, exceedingly large ships, that took emigrant familes to a land which was northward. Other Nephites also went overland into the Land Northward

The second idea, regards an opinion about the meaning of a verse. “Alma 63:4 talks about the large company of men [you mention above] that go into the land northward and in verse 5 it says Hagoth built a ship. It seems to me those are 2 separate stories and highly unlikely that those 20,000 or so people went by ship.” However, while we might introduce the idea of the ship, then talk about people entering it (traveling to a land), it is more common to reverse the act with the subject in oriental thinking. Mormon tells us a lot of people went into a land which was northward, and then tells us how they went—introducing a man who built ships for their transport.

In addition, you add, “That was in the 37th year. In the 38th year, the first ship returns (also suggesting that Hagoth had only built one ship that 20,000 people must have walked to the land northward.)” Of course we don’t know how big the ship was, but it was “an exceedingly large ship,” and we do not know how many more ships Hagoth built after the first ship sailed, but we are told, “this man built other ships” while the first ship was at sea. Evidently, he had a ship-building business, and “other ships” has to be at least two more, and possibly many more than that. We only know that after a year or possibly almost two, the first ship returned. That first ship was refitted and sailed again, this time not returning, so no one knew what happened to it, and Mormon, telling the story nearly 400 years later, never heard more of it—which could mean it stayed in that other land northward. How many ships went north with how many people in each is not known. But Mormon sets the number at 5,400 men, plus their wives and children.

Hagoth built other ships in his shipyard while the first ship sailed to a land which was northward and returned in the following year

You also state: “Verses 7-8 say the first ship then set out with provisions and were never heard of again. The people who were lost were those on this first ship (and possibly other ships with them) not the original 20,000 that went into the land northward.” The scriptural record says the first ship returned (vs 7) and set out again (vs 7), and were not heard from more (vs 8), that is the first ship sailed to another land, deposited its people, returned, was refitted and sailed again with more people, and did not return. In addition, he built “other ships” and we are not told what happened to them or where they went, however, it might be assumed that a ship-building business existed and it seemed to be involved in emigration, so we might conclude that these other ships also sailed north and must not have ever returned for Mormon either didn’t know what happened to only one ship, or to others, it simply is not stated. Yet we know that another ship went northward carrying Corianton with supplies (vs 10).

We also need to keep in mind that Mormon, in describing all this, follows up by saying “And it came to pass that in this year there were many people who went forth into the land northward. And thus ended the thirty and eighth year” (vs9), so we see that Mormon stated these two movements northward, by ship (vs 4-8,10), and those who went overland (vs 9), which we find Helaman (3:3-4) telling us that seven years later, another large number of Nephites went overland into the Land Northward “to inherit the land,” which of course would still be in the Land of Promise, so far northward “they came to large bodies of water and many rivers,” that is, the same Land Northward mentioned in Alma 50:29. Evidently, Hagoth was still building ships, since the people in the Land Northward “did send forth much [timber] by the way of shipping” (Helaman 3:10), and may not have been the only ship builder since the Nephites were heavily involved in shipping (Helaman 3:14).