We continue to have comments, questions and criticisms
sent in from readers of our blog. Here are a few more with our responses.
Comment #1: “You are always talking about Andean Peru having
been settled by the Nephites dating from about 587 B.C. onward; however, you
never show any buildings dated to that period” Chance D.
The
flat-topped pyramid at Cerro del Gentil stands 16 feet tall and is made out of
adobe. Pyramid artifacts found nearby the pyramid include textiles, shells and
ceramics. A settlement nearby contained around 1,000 people
Response: How about this one? Archaeologists have
discovered a pyramid in southern Peru, built between 600 B.C. and 50 B.C., that
aligned with two stone lines and the setting sun during the winter solstice.
The two stone lines frame the pyramid with the sun setting directly behind it.
This alignment may have had cosmological significance for the people who lived
there.
The partially destroyed El Paraiso , part of
a 12-pyramid complex outside Lima, Peru
Or how about this
one? Another, outside Lima Peru, was recently partially destroyed by
developers. Authorities in Peru say an ancient pyramid at the oldest
archaeological site near the capital, Lima, has been destroyed. They are
pressing criminal charges against two real-estate companies blamed for tearing
down the structure, which was 20-ft high. An archaeologist said those
responsible had committed "irreparable damage". The building was one
of 12 pyramids found at the El Paraiso complex and is thought to be at least
4,000 years old, is situated several kilometres north of Lima. According to
Peru's tourism ministry, it was a religious and administrative center long
before the pre-Columbian Inca civilization. More can be shown, of course—Andean Peru has
hundreds of such sights most dating to Nephite times.
Comment #2: “In the account of the Nephite/Gadianton
war, the Nephites were initially forbidden to attack the Gadiantons, and were
only allowed to defend themselves. Yet when the Gadiantons attempted to escape
to the north countries, the Nephites were allowed to attack them and prevent
them from occupying this area. Apparently the Lord felt that it was important
to preserve the land northward for future Nephite expansion or retreat”
Manfried.
Response: The reason
the Nephites were forbidden to initialize an attack is that the Lord’s people
have always been instructed to defend themselves to the death, if necessary,
but not to initiate or begin wars or battles. Such an aggression by the
Nephites in Mormon’s time spelled their doom (Mormon 4:4). In addition, at the
time the Gadianton Robbers were in the mountain regions of the Land Southward
(3 Nephi 4:1) and there was no need to be concerned about the Land Northward.
However, when the war had already begun, and the battles fought, and the
Robbers defeated, they attempted to flee into the Land Northward, since there
was no game, hunting, food, etc., left in the Land Southward where they had
been fighting for several years (3 Nephi 4:20), and that was when the Nephites,
who had been attacking regularly once the war was underway (3 Nephi 4:21-22)
were sent to attack the retreating Robbers. This may not have been so much to
keep the Robbers from fleeing to “the furthermost parts of the land northward”
(3 Nephi 4:23), as the Robbers were decimated from hunger and being slaughtered
day and night by the Nephites, and were easy prey for total defeat by the
Nephite army (3 Nephi 4:25-28), which had a most amazing impact on the Nephites
(3 Nephi 5:1).
Comment #3: “Dr. Hugh Nibley once observed:
“Blinded …Book of Mormon students have declared themselves “not interested” in
the drab and commonplace remains of our lowly Indians. But in all the Book of
Mormon we look in vain for anything that promises majestic ruins. My sentiments
exactly” Handley P.
A replica of King
Solomon’s temple, the first temple in Jerusalem, with its Kodesh Kahodashim
(Holy of Holies) in the 9th century B.C. What type of Nephite temple
did Nephi build that he would compare to Solomon’s, which Nephi had seen and
knew
Response: Hmmm. I wonder what Mormon had in mind when he described king
Noah’s “spacious palace, and a throne in the midst thereof, all of which was of
fine wood and was ornamented with gold and silver and with precious things”
(Mosiah 11:9), and when he added, “Also caused that his workmen should work all
manner of fine work within the walls of the temple of fine wood, and of copper,
and of brass” (Mosiah 11:10). We also find that king Noah “built
many elegant and spacious buildings; and he ornamented them with fine works of
wood, and of all manner of precious things, of gold, and of silver, and of
iron, and of brass, and of ziff, and of copper” (Mosiah 11:8).
In addition, we know
that Nephi built a temple like Solomon’s and that “the manner of the
construction was like unto the temple of Solomon; and the workmanship thereof
was exceedingly fine” (2 Nephi 5:16). In Mosiah we find that those who went to
the Land Northward discovered an area and people where the land was also
covered with ruins of buildings of every kind” (Mosiah 8:8). While Hugh Nibley
has some great insights into some matters, this certainly isn’t one of them—the
so-called “drab and commonplace remains of our lowly Indians” in no way meets
any criteria of the Jaredite or Nephite world as described in the scriptural record.
Comment #4: “I read this recently, and wondered what you
thought: “LDS filmmaker Keith Merrill says he
picked the background for "The Testaments" by default, and if he had
it to do over, he would have sought locations in North America rather than
Central and South America..."I'm the guy who made the biggest, most
expensive film (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) has ever made,
and I put it in the wrong place." Merrill said the common notion that the
Mayan and Aztec peoples and other such civilizations known to have lived in
Central America ... influenced his choice of jungle location. (He ultimately
filmed "The Testaments" on the Hawaiian island of Kauai after roaming
the jungles of the Yucatan.)” Clark G.
(Left: Keith Merrill and a scene (right)
from the Testaments
Response: Keith
Merrill is entitled to his own opinion. However, we have written scores of
articles posted in this blog about the fallacy of North America being the
location of the Land of Promise of the Nephites in the Book of Mormon. As we
have said many times, there are basically no matches in North America,
especially upstate New York, to the many descriptions Mormon offers us in the
scriptural record. I invite you to read them rather than repeating them here.
If Merrill made a mistake with Central America and the jungle background, he
would have made an even bigger mistake with North America as his background.
One of his concluding remarks Merrill has made on this subject is: "... I suggest a re-reading of the Book of Mormon and see if
you don't discover a new perspective.” Well, let’s offer this same advice to
him, trying to find any matches in upstate New York to Mormon’s descriptions
other than the hill Cumorah being there—but even that does not match the
description of it as Mormon described his last battle there.
After all, Mormon was there. He fought a battle there—the last
battle of the Nephite Nation. He lost 230,000 fighting men, plus their wives
and children there. He was severely wounded there. He looked out from the top
of the hill Cumorah over the entire battlefield and saw his dead comrades. Besides Moroni and the Lord, no one else modern or ancient could know more about
these events than Mormon.
Why would we not listen to him, read what he wrote, and understand
this hill from his perspective?
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