Clarification for Another Reader – The Isle of Promise – Part III

Continuing from the previous post on why the Nephites knew they were on an island, and our responses to the several comments sent to us on this by a reader. 
    Reader: “As far as other people being there, there are many verses that suggest this is entirely possible if you pay attention to the context. Not definitively, but possible.”

Response: In order for any part of the scriptural record to be considered “possible” that others were in the Land of Promise, i.e., that land being described directly in the scriptural record, one must ignore other passages to the contrary. It is not our role to ignore one passage in order to make another mean something it does not outright say. As an example, it is not a stretch to suggest that there was no Sea East or Narrow Neck of Land after the crucifixion, since neither are mentioned any more in the scriptural record. The lack of mentioning could suggest they were changed after the destruction in 3 Nephi. But to suggest that there were other people in the land because the numbers don’t add up otherwise is to ignore direct statements that there was no one else there, and that not a single passage suggests there were. No matter how hard you pay attention to the context, nobody is mentioned or suggested in any way. You simply cannot add something where not only is it not mentioned, but several passages show that no one could have been, from Ether 13:2 and Lehi’s promise to his children, including the vision given to Nephi of Columbus and the gentiles. One might suspect that if others were involved, they would at least have been mentioned or in some way suggested in the passages about those people mentioned.

Unfortunately, beginning with Hugh Nibley and later John L. Sorenson, the area of Mesoamerica, when using academic criteria and 17^th century writings supposedly “remembering” thousand-year-old histories, show a diffusion of peoples in Mesoamerica, that the Mesoamericanist is obliged to include them within their Land of Promise models. These models include Jaredites surviving the final wars though the scriptures say none did; of lengthy Mulekite interaction with Jaredites, though they could not understand the language and needed Mosiah to interpret it for them; of Lamanites mixing with other people not otherwise mentioned in the record in order to bolster their numbers, even though their larger numbers are easily understood by the record itself.
    Reader: “Even the verses leading up to 2 Nephi 1:8 (quoted above) say that the those brought from other nations would be brought by the hand of the Lord and that the land was covenanted to Lehi's seed "and also all those who should be led out of other countries by the hand of the Lord."
    Response: If you read the passages you mention and the others about these “other people” you will find that it stated all these events “in the future tense,” i.e., after Lehi arrived. Those who came after Lehi are clearly defined in Nephi’s vision; and Lehi makes it clear that none would be coming soon because of the displacement of his own seed, etc. “And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance” (2 Nephi 1:8)—kept as yet, means no one has come yet!

Lehi also said, “And if it so be that they shall keep his commandments they shall be blessed upon the face of this land, and there shall be none to molest them, nor to take away the land of their inheritance; and they shall dwell safely forever” (2 Nephi 1:9). “and there should be none to molest them” is pretty clear! Not until Mormon’s time (Mormon 2:15) did the Nephites reach a point where they lost these rights.
    Reader: “At the time Lehi stated this, there were already at least two other groups there (or arriving shortly)- the Jaredites and the Mulekites. Obviously Lehi's seed was not promised the entire land to themselves.”
    Response: At the time Lehi stated this, it would have been about 10 to 12 years after Lehi left Jerusalem, making it 590-588 B.C. (Actual time per Zedekiah’s reign: 587-584 B.C.). By this time, the Jaredites were all gone and Coriantumr would have been wandering his land, eventually heading into the Land Southward. Mulek and his people would still be on the high seas if his group went through the same process that Lehi did (with the exception of the weddings), which was an 8 year period in the wilderness and at least one to 2 years building a ship. If it took Mulek’s group that long, Mulek, who left Jerusalem 10 to 11 years after Lehi (the former in the first year of Zedekiah’s reign and the latter in the last year). Since Jerusalem fell in 587 or 586 B.C., Mulek would have left the city sometime between 586 and 588 B.C., which would place him in the Land of Promise at the very earliest at 582 and the very latest 576 B.C. Either date, would put them in the Land of Promise a few years after Lehi’s statement.
    Reader: “The land was kept secret to those that the Lord didn't intend to lead there, but not a secret to everyone.”

Response: It was a secret to everyone. No one came unless the Lord brought them, for Lehi said, “I, Lehi, prophesy according to the workings of the Spirit which is in me, that there shall none come into this land save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord” (2 Nephi 1:6, emphasis added) as well as “and also all those who should be led out of other countries by the hand of the Lord” (2 Nephi 1:5, emphasis added), and “Wherefore, this land is consecrated unto him whom he shall bring” (2 Nephi 1:7, emphasis added), showing the Lord would lead anyone coming here and that at Lehi’s time, it would be in the future. The Lord made it clerar no one else had arrived, new about it, or was already there “And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance” (2 Nephi 1:8, emphasis added).
    Reader: “You are spot on about the promised land being more than the United States.”
    Response: As we have said from the beginning, the land promised is the entire Western Hemisphere, though that portion covered in the scriptural record is only one island—an area along the western shelf of the present South America continent.
    Reader: “The Mediterranean climate you mention would have been very different when they first landed under your theory with the absence of the Andes mountains.”
    Response: First of all, for some reason, though we have written to the contrary numerous times, some of our readers are under the impression there were no mountains in Andean South America prior to the crucifixion. Nothing could be further from the truth. In a vision Nephi had before even reaching the Land of Promise tells us there were mountains there when the destruction in 3 Nephi began: 

“I saw a mist of darkness on the face of the land of promise; and I saw lightnings, and I heard thunderings, and earthquakes, and all manner of tumultuous noises; and I saw the earth and the rocks, that they rent; and I saw mountains tumbling into pieces; and I saw the plains of the earth, that they were broken up; and I saw many cities that they were sunk; and I saw many that they were burned with fire; and I saw many that did tumble to the earth, because of the quaking thereof” (1 Nephi l12:4); and Samuel the Lamanite, speaking from the city wall of Zarahemla the words the Lord put in his mouth regarding the destruction to take place at the time of the crucifixion: “there shall be great tempests, and there shall be many mountains laid low, like unto a valley, and there shall be many places which are now called valleys which shall become mountains, whose height is great” (Helaman 14:23).
    Obviously, the Land of Promise described in the scriptural record underwent a complete change in topography. For those who have been through a serious earthquake, you know how damaging a few seconds of shaking can do.
(See the next post, “Clarification for Another Reader – The Isle of Promise – Part IV,” for more on why the Nephites and particularly Jacob knew they were on an island”