Continuing from the previous four posts regarding further
insights into the comments and responses regarding the Nephites and their
activities and so-called connection to the Mintinah records of the Nemenhah
tribe.
Reader: “Mormon's
father was a descendant of them [the Nemenhah] also.”
Response: Once again, according to Mormon (shown left handing the plates to his son, Moroni), he and
his father were descendants of Lehi and Nephi (Mornon 1:5).
Reader: “as
to why the reference to "high" mountains so frequently. Several of
the prophets in the scriptures are told to go there for consultation. I can
only assume that it is for privacy.”
Response: According to the Old Testament psalmist who
states: “Thy righteousness is like the
great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep” (Psalm 36:6), meaning
that “the mountains of God” are so called for their excellency, as the cedars
of God (Psalm 80:10), as Gussetius observes, the greatest and highest
mountains, which are here meant, reaching above the clouds and the region of
the air, are the pillars of the palace of God, and a part of it; and therefore
called his mountains with great propriety, for they therefore are sacred unto
him and a place where he communes with man, whether it be the Brother of Jared,
Moses, or Nephi. Conversely, God’s judgments are a great deep, both in a way of
providence, many of them being at present not to be traced and even understood,
though at some point in time they will be made manifest. The process of
climbing a high mountain has its clear effect on the recipient of this meeting
with God and is so effected by the majesty of the event. Privacy would be a
secondary issue, and certainly one the Lord could arrange in a different
manner.
Reader: “The children of Israel
were terribly frightened when they saw and heard the evidences of God's
presence on Sinai and wanted no part of Him.”
Response: It was not the mountain that frightened them, it was
their sins. Again the psalmist asks, “If though the Lord shouldest mark
iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?” meaning who could stand before God
clothed in their sins? Israel was sinful and knew it and when God came down upon
Mount Sinai, or basically in their presence, they were frightened as we all
shall be who have not repented of his sins when face to face with God.
Reader: “In other
instances, I believe the Lord did not want to give unfaithful men cause to
believe based merely on the signs of His presence. So He kept the meetings
"private.”
Response: No doubt. However that is not why sacred meetings
are in private. The very being of God sacred and demand reverence, uninterrupted
attention, and an attentive mind. The best way to ensure the full attention of
the individual is to put him in a place of isolation where his full attention
will be on the experience.
Reader: “As to the
height of the newest mountains added in cataclysms, your guess is good enough
about it needing to be high enough to be seen by all, but it could also act as
more effective barriers between the righteous and the unrighteous.”
Response: At no time is there a reference, suggestion or
idea about isolating the righteous from the unrighteous via the rise of the
mountains. In addition, how can righteous people prove their righteousness if
they are not tested through opposition of the unrighteous in their presence? (2
Nephi 2:11).
Reader: “As it states
in the BoM that the topographic changes were great in South America, but they
were even greater in North America!”
Response: No, it does not say that. The scriptural record
states about the changes brought about in the Land of Promise, both in the Land
Southward and more so in the Land Northward. When you start expanding the
distances more or less suggested in the scriptural record into two continents, you get some
ridiculous results.
For instance, the distance from the center of the United
States and the Center of Peru is 4521 miles as the crow flies, or about 5000
miles by land movement; from the middle of North America to the middle of South
America, a little over 6500 miles—that
would be walking from San Francisco, California, to New York City and back to
San Francisco and then back to Denver. Let’s be realistic about this. The
scriptural record says that after the shaking and destruction stopped, a great
multitude gathered together in the land of Bountiful around the temple (3 Nephi
11:1)—using your distances, that would have been an isolated small area for
Christ to appear out of a possible distance of over 6500 miles, yet the
scriptures tell us that Jesus ministered to the multitude suggesting it was the
bulk of the Nephite people. There are also many other reasons why the Land of
Promise does not cover two continents, which we have covered many times in
these pages.
Reader: “While I don't
recall anything descriptions of those cataclysms in up north in the Mentinah
Records, there is the account of those young men that came down to the south to
preach to the Nephites and wound up preaching to the Gaddianton Robbers in
their own hidden city of Kishkumen shortly before the cataclysms struck.”
Response: The Gadianton Robbers are mentioned in 3 Nephi
1:27-30, that both Nephites and Lamanites joined the Robbers who had became
quite powerful, and numerous, causing both Nephites
and Lamanites to take up arms against them (3 Nephi 2:11), especially the
Lamanites who were converted and united with the Nephites (3 Nephi 2:12), and
that these converted Lamanites skin became white like unto the Nephites (3
Nephi 2:15). Eventually the Nephites drove the Robberts out of their lands and
back into the mountains and their secret places (3 Nephi 2:17), this brought
about the gathering of the Nephites into one place in preparation for the war
the Robbers threatened to bring upon them (3 Nephi 3), but finally the Nephites
prevailed, the Robber chief Giddanhi was killed and the Nephites returned to
their homes and lands (3 Nephi 4:15). The Nephite armies pursued the retreating
Robbers and eventually took them all prisoner(3 Nephi 5:4), putting an end to
them (3 Nephi 5:6), with the remainder of the Nephites returning to their homes
and lands (3 Nephi 6:2).
At this point “there began to be men
inspired from heaven and sent forth, standing among the people in all the land,
preaching and testifying boldly of the sins and iniquities of the people, and
testifying unto them concerning the redemption which the Lord would make for
his people, or in other words, the resurrection of Christ; and they did testify
boldly of his death and sufferings” (3 Nephi 6:20), which led to the people
being “divided one against another; and they did separate one from another into
tribes, every man according to his family and his kindred and friends; and thus
they did destroy the government of the land” (3 Nephi 7:2). Also Secret
Combinations destroyed the government and the righteous parts of the people had
nearly all become wicked, leaving few righteous men among them (3 Nephi 7:7).
Within a short time, the destruction began (3 Nephi 8:5).
There is absolutely
no mention or suggestion that there was any missionary work done among the
Gadianton Robbers at this time or at any time and, from what is written, it would seem doubtful that any
would have taken place or even been allowed.
Reader: “To add to my
comment about the city of Kishkumen, and the young missionaries that went to
preach there and the other cities they stopped in first, the account of that is
verified in 3 Ne 9:10.”
Response: All this scriptural reference does is say there was a city called Kishkumen that the Lord destroyed among others, but it does not state it was a stronghold of the Gadianton Robbers—where
it was no one knows. There is no description of its location, nor whether it
was named after the man (left) that killed Pahoran, and was killed as a result
by Helaman’s servant; however Kiskuman’s band escaped and took their flight out
of the land of Zarahemla, by a secret way, into the wilderness (Helaman 2:11). On
the other hand, there is no suggestion that the city of Kishkumen was named
after, for, or connected in any way to the Kiskumen who killed Pahoran.
It should also be noted that the city if Kiskumen is merely
one of numerous cities destroyed during the cataclysm described in 3 Nephi 8
and 9, and many of these, including Kishkumen, is mentioned for the first and
only time in the record. None of this suggests or verifies any of the events
you outlined, especially the young missionaries going there and preaching.
(See the next post, “Interesting Thoughts from a Reader and
Our Responses – Part VI,” for more information on the comments and responses
regarding the Nephites and their activities)
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