Continuing from the previous three posts regarding further
insights into the comments and responses regarding the Nephites and their
activities.
Reader: “Mormon's father was a descendant of them also.”
Response: Mormon tells us who he is, and that is not a
Lamanite! He writes of himself: “And
I, Mormon, being a descendant of Nephi, (and my father's name was Mormon)…”
(Mormon 1:5).
Therefore, since
Mormon was a descendant of Nephi, his father, Mormon, would also have been a
descendant of Nephi, thus neither of them were part of or connected to the
people of Ammon, who were originally Lamanites before their conversion, meaning
they were descended through either Laman, Lemuel or the sons of Ishmael,
depending on the context of Lamanite at the time.
Reader: “…and he brought his son, Mormon, down to the land southward when he was
10…”
Response: First, Mormon tell us he was “eleven years old,
when I was carried by my father into the Land Southward, even to the land of
Zarahemla” (Mormon 1:6).
Reader: “…stopping in
the Nephite settlements in Central America…”
Response: We know nothing of any Nephite settlements in
Central America in the scriptural record, and certainly since Mormon was in the
Land Northward, which was connected to the Land Southward by a “small” and “narrow
neck of land” (Alma 22:32; 63:5), which literally means small and narrow, i.e.,
far south of Central America in the Land of Promise.
Reader: “…where he [Mormon]
met Ammaron (who he later replaces as the Prophet) and then came to Zarahemla a
year later.”
Response: Ammaron was the prophet of the Nephite Nation and
as such would have been either in Bountiful or most likely in Zarahemla, which
was the Nephite capital both before the destruction (3 Nephi 1:2), and
afterward when they rebuilt the city (4 Nephi 1:8).
Evidently, the Lord knowing where the wars would take place
and where Mormon would be when he was a certain age, had Ammaron hide the
records in an area that would then be accessable to Mormon, so he told this ten
year old, “when ye are about
twenty and four years old I would that ye should remember the things that ye
have observed concerning this people; and when ye are of that age go to the
land Antum, unto a hill which shall be called Shim; and there have I deposited
unto the Lord all the sacred engravings concerning this people. And behold, ye
shall take the plates of Nephi unto yourself, and the remainder shall ye leave
in the place where they are; and ye shall engrave on the plates of Nephi all
the things that ye have observed concerning this people”
(Mormon 1:3-4).
Mormon and the Nephite Army was fleeing as
fast as they could in an attempt to keep ahead of the pursuing Lamanite forces
Now, Mormon would
have been 24 years old in 334 A.D., however, from 330 A.D. to 344 A.D., Mormon
was embroiled in constant battles, and prior to this time Mormon was in the
land of Joshua, near the West Sea (Mormon 2:6), at which time they were
gathering in their people as they retreated, and “the land was filled with
robbers and with Lamanites; and notwithstanding the great destruction which
hung over my people, they did not repent of their evil doings; therefore there
was blood and carnage spread throughout all the face of the land, both on the
part of the Nephites and also on the part of the Lamanites; and it was one
complete revolution throughout all the face of the land” (Mormon 2:8). A huge
battle followed, no doubt over several days, in which 86,000 total combatants
were involved (Mormon 2:9) and a fourteen year period follows in 7 or 8 verses
of constant battles, and thousands upon thousands of Nephites dying and Mormon
“saw that the day of grace was passed with them; both temporally and
spiritually” (Mormon 2:15).
All these events took
place around the narrow neck of land, where the city of Joshua was located,
westward of the land of David and southward of the land of Jashon, all cities
where battles took place over this period. The point is, Mormon would have been
so busily involved in fighting and fleeing with his Army that it is doubtful he
would have had time for any records and, in fact, none are mentioned at this
point.
Not until Mormon and
his beleaguered Army arrives in Jashon do we find that this area, just beyond
the narrow neck of land, is near to where Ammaron hid the plates in the hill
Shim. In this is should be noted that the Nephite army was fleeing for their
lives from before the Lamanite hordes, and not even Mormon could bring his army
to a stop until they reached Jashson (Mormon 2:16)—in the distances mentioned
above in Central America, that would mean the Nephite Army was fleeing at a
fast pace in retreat for about 865 miles non-stop. Such would not be possible
and is beyond any consideration. That would also place the hill Cumorah more
than 860 miles from the narrow neck of land—of coure, when one is theorizing
one can always move the narrow neck.
The Darién Gap where Panama (Central America)
attaches to Colombia of South America and is made up of jungle, marshland,
swamp and dense mountain rainforest—even the Pan American highway, which runs
for 19,000 miles could not be built through the Gap
However the one thing
we know between where Mormon was fighting and where the Reader places Jashon
there is the area today called the Darién Gap, at least 50 miles wide running
from sea to sea, and about 100 miles long that was, until the time of the
crucifixion, submerged under water, and when it arose, it was such a tangle of
jungle no one was ever been able to cross it on foot—the topography of this
area would simply keep this land from being part of the Land of Promise as
described by Mormon.
Mormon states that he
finally obtained the plates of Nephi which Ammaron commanded him to write upon
in 345 A.D., when Mormon was about 35 years old (Mormon 2:17-18). The rest of these records were
obtained from the hill Shim around 375 A.D., when Mormon would have been 65
years old (Mormon 4:23).
Reader: “Young Mormon
was taught by Ammaron and knew the record of the Nephites from that, and took
the name of Captain Moroni to give to his own son later.”
When Mormon
was ten, the prophet Ammaron approached him and told him about the sacred
records hidden in the hill Shim and what he was to do with them when he got
older
Response: While this is possible, Mormon was only ten years
old when he met Ammaron and only a few months before his father took him into
the Land Southward. It might be questioned how much of the Nephite history
Ammaron could have imparted unto him in that time, and whether or not the story
of Moroni would have been covered then However, and far more likely, Mormon
learned of Captain Moroni when he was 36 and obtained the records of Nephi.
This is probably about the time that Mormon either married or had his children
since Moroni was of a fighting age 30 to 35 years later when the final battle
with the Lamanites occurred. It might also be added that Momron’s constant
description of missing his son and hoping he was well and safe might be more
reminiscent of a younger than older son.
The
Mentinah Archives—records of the Nemenhah tribe, which starts with the Book of
Hagoth and claims to tell his history and how he discoverefd and settled the
laneds of north of the Colorado River
Reader: “Samuel [the Lamanite] returned to his own land
northward where he did preach to his people there and authored 2 of the books
of the Mentinah Records.”
Response: We have already mentioned the Mentinah Records,
and since most of this Reader’s comments stem from that Record, it should be
obvious how far from factual that writing is, not to mention it came into
existence in the manner it did in Sanpete. And certainly cannot be used as a
means to understand, study, or better know the scriptural record. The Mentinah
website states: ”Furthermore, the Book of Mormon teaches
that all of these groups will have the writings of the others (see 2 Nephi
29:13).
However, that
scripture isolates records to just three groups: “And it shall come to pass
that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have
the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of
the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words
of the Nephites and the Jews.” Perhaps this group is claiming the Mentinah were
part of the Lost Ten Tribes—if that were the case, their records would show the
connection, as does the Book of Mormon, and as will the Lost Ten Tribes records
when we see them—the Mentinah do not claim that, they claim to be a
continuation through the Book of Mormon (Hagoth, Samuel the Lamanite, etc.)
(See the next post, “Interesting Thoughts from a Reader and
Our Responses – Part V,” for more information on the comments and responses
regarding the Nephites and their activities)
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Even if the Mentinah record is an authentic ancient record, that of itself does not prove in the least that what it says is the truth. Ancient records can be full of false things too. Since it contradicts the Book of Mormon again and again, there is no reason to trust it. This link tells about its promoter: http://www.casewatch.org/crim/landis/montana_appeal.shtml
ReplyDeleteWell put. Most members are unaware of all of the so-called ancient records people keep promoting that when analyzed are pure fiction.
ReplyDeleteI hope we are almost done with this mentinah record nonsense.
ReplyDelete