Opinions Are Not Facts – Part II

Continued from the previous post regarding the comments made by a reader and our responses to the issue of having opinions about things that are not based on facts)
Comment: “If they were around the area of where today they believe the Tower of Babel to be and traveled south similar to the Nephites into the Arabian Sea and were pushed south westerly by the Agulhas current into the Benguela current, which pushed them Northwesterly up, then across the Atlantic by way of the South Equatorial current into the Caribbean, then up the East coast in the Gulf Coast current they could have easily used nothing but the sea currents to get them there.”

Dominant Blue Arrows: major currents; Red Arrows: Phoenician course taken in 600 BC; Green dots: where they set in for months to plant and harvest crops

Response: You obviously do not understand the Benguela and Agulhas currents. We have illustrated in our blog site the problems with this with maps of currents on several occasions. Let’s just say, they call that area the “graveyard of ships,” “the cape of storms,” which was all quite frightening to the mariners in the 16^th century, let alone to anyone of 600 BC.  For barges to have made this trip under only wind power and ocean currents is about as improbable as one can get.
Comment: “Also when it comes to the promised land for the Jaredites it may not be the same land as the promised land of the Nephites.”
Response: The Jaredites occupied the Land Northward of the Land of Promise as outlined in the Book of Mormon. When the Nephites traveled into the Land Northward to settle in the last half of the last century BC, they “went forth unto the land northward to inherit the land” (Helaman 3:3, emphasis added). Now the word inherit in 1828 meant: “to receive, as a right or title descendible by law from an ancestor at his decease; a gift or divine appropriation, to inherit the promises.”
    Thus, it was part of the land promised to Lehi, who said “the Lord hath covenanted this land unto me, and to my children forever (2 Nephi 1:5), otherwise the Nephites could not inherit the Land Northward when they finally occupied it. That is, no other land than the land promised to Lehi and his descendants forever, could be an inheritance.
Comment: “…this is evident by the fact that the promised land of the Nephites was obviously not the same promised land of the Israelites, though both were chosen of the Lord.”

Lehi’s Isle of Promise, or Land of Promise, was the entire area: the Land Northward and the Land Southward. The Jaredites were promised the area of the Land Northward (they never went into the Land Southward)

Response: The Jaredites were promised a land and when they became evil after about 1500 years, the Lord, through Ether, told Coriantumr if he did not repent, that “he should only live to see the fulfilling of the prophecies which had been spoken concerning another people receiving the land for their inheritance; and Coriantumr should receive a burial by them; and every soul should be destroyed save it were Coriantumr” (Ether 13:21).
    Now, it is obvious that Coriantumr saw the Mulekites who, after joining the Nephites, became inheritors of the Land of Promise spoken of by Lehi. The Mulekites, or people of Zarahemla, buried him after his living nine months with them (Omni 1:21).
    Therefore, the Jaredites did not have a separate land promised than the Nephites, but it was the same overall Land of Promise given to Lehi, since the Jaredites no longer were worthy to keep it, just as the Nephites were not worthy to keep the Land of Promise after 385 AD., which became a land for the Gentiles (1 Nephi 13:10-20).
Comment: “I also think you are restricting the "land of Nephi" to a much smaller area than it actually was but that is neither here nor there.”

The Andean South America Land of Promise is much larger than Mesoamerica, and a little larger than the Heartland/Great Lakes area. Most of the content of the Book of Mormon is involved in the area of the red dotted line; however, just the Land of Nephi extended far to the south of the line

Response: Perhaps you have not looked at a map, but everything from just above Cuzco, Peru, southward to La Serena, Chile, is a considerable area of land. The Jaredites occupied a small portion of that overall land and the rest was divided vertically about in half, divided by the narrow strip of wilderness shown by the solid yellow line in the map above.
Comment: “Mostly I was saying that regardless of the great effort and time many have put into finding exactly where and when and how it all happened, ultimately it really doesn't matter, it is not an eternal issue that will keep people from Heaven. and we should stick to more important issues.”
Response: There is no question that the doctrines of the Book of Mormon are the important issue of the scriptural record as a Second Testimony of Jesus Christ. However, while we don’t need to know where Christ was born, lived and died, it is more enjoyable to read the New Testament when you can place the events in real places and real time frames.  I feel the same way about the Book of Mormon.
Comment: “However, it is fun to speculate.”
Response: We do not speculate—the scriptural record is not a matter of having fun creating your own scenarios, particularly when you post them for others to see. We follow the scriptural record and don’t make up things along the way for one reason or another, or follow unproven lines of thought or create scenarios on our own. We follow the scriptural record. If you really want to debate this matter, perhaps you should stop speculating and try to understand the reality of the Book of Mormon geography which is clearly stated in the scriptural record.

What needs to be understood when trying to locate the geographical setting of the Book of Mormon, is that speculation, opinions, beliefs or pet assumptions should play no role in the matter if one is going to publish their ideas for the world to see. Nephi makes it very clear how he got to the Land of Promise (driven forth before the wind); and Jacob tells us the makeup of the overall Land of Promise (it was an isle of the sea); Mormon tells us in what direction the land ran, and where each land was located in relationship to the others (north-south; running south to north: Land of Nephi, narrow strip of wilderness, Land of Zarahemla, unnamed land, Land of Bountiful, narrow neck of land, Land of Desolation and an area beyond with many waters, rivers and fountains; a north sea (Ripliancum); Helaman tells there were four seas (north, south, east, and west); Helaman also tells us there would be mountains “whose height is great”; Moroni tells us that there was a “sea that divideth the land.” 
    Mormon also tells us where the Sidon river was located (along the border of the Land of Zarahemla (not beside the city of Zarahemla), and in which direction the river flowed (south to north). Any map, location, or theory must include all of these areas, as well as many other descriptions that are spelled out with clarity in the scriptural record.