More Comments from Readers-Part V

Here are more comments and questions from readers of this blog:
Comment #1: “One logical location for the Nephites’ defensive line in Helaman 4:7 begins at the Pacific coast fishing village of Paredón, Chiapas, Mexico, and extends eastward into the mountains toward the archaeological site of Tonala. Paredón in Spanish means “big wall”—a likely reflection of a defensive wall that existed at one historical point in Paredon” Claren J.
Response: It is interesting that you would use “Big Wall.” The Spanish word paredón has several definitions and none are “Big Wall.” They cover from “thick wall,” “standing wall,” “rock face,” “wall of rock,” “wall,” to “execution wall,” depending on how it is used in a sentence. But none of which indicate a “Big Wall.” In fact, the two most common definitions of the word are: a wall that remains standing as a ruin of an old building; or a site, usually in front of a wall, where there is death by firing squad. We might suggest then, that the area in Mesoamerica was called either simply “wall” or was associated with an area of execution rather than “a big wall.”
    Paredón is situated eight miles from Tonala, a larger settlement area to the east and a little north where theorist Joseph Allen described a wall between these two areas, he claimed blocked off movement up the coast.

Top: overall area of Mesoamerica, showing the location of Paredón and Tonala along with the various climates and fauna of the area; Bottom: location of Paredón and Tonala with the broken arrow the location of the so-called wall that blocked the pass along the shoreline

The area between the mountains of today’s Biosphere Reserve of Sepultura, is a deciduous forest and relict vegetation of mountain mesophyll forest (cloud forest) and misty thickets, profuse with deciduous trees, such as Palo chaca (Gumbo limbo), Casahuate and Copperwood trees, Copalchi shrubs, Mountain guayaba, and flowering Angel’s head among forests of the Rocky Mountain range. Its lower levels are deciduous or dry tropical forests in the lower parts of both strands of the Sierra.

The hills to the east of Tonala are passable, beginning in the foothills and into the mid forest jungle until one reaches the higher mountains toward the Continental Divide

Consequently, these hills can be easily climbed and used to negate travel along the shoreline and would not have been a deterrent to any army of ancient warriors who traveled on foot through its lower levels. What should be noted is that this distance between the mountains and ocean beyond the 8-mile wide flat shore to Tonala, climbs slowly into the heights of the Rocky Mountains along the Continental Divide; its lower levels are neither steep or impassable.
Comment #2: “I think you miss the point. The Nephite cardinal directions of “northward” and “southward” are unique when viewed from their orientation at the narrow neck of land (Isthmus of Tehuantepec). As the dividing line between the land northward and the land southward, the narrow neck of land justifies these two cardinal points as being distinctive among all cultures of the world—an outcome that has great merit when Mormon’s map is placed over a map of Mesoamerica” Joel J.
Response: First of all, northward and southward are not cardinal points of a compass. There is no single direction of northward, southward, eastward or westward. These are words with specific definitions, such as “northward,” being an adjective, meaning “towards the north or nearer to the north than to the east and west points.” Or it is an adverb, meaning “towards the north, or toward a point nearer to the north than the east and west points,” or as a noun, meaning “the direction or region to the north. In a looser fashion, you could say “northward” is the cardinal compass point of zero or 360º, but it is not limited to only that compass point, since northward is basically from 315º to 45º, but not 46º or higher, or 314º or lower.

Submarine command during a firing mission using exact pin-point measurements and directions

The problem is that words are general terms, degree points are exact directions, which is why the military uses degrees, rarely ever general terms, and why in a submarine, everyone knows in which direction they are heading, or a target lies, with a simple degree point.
    As to your first topic, it does not matter where one is in the Land of Promise in discussing compass points, however, in discussing words it is a totally different matter. As an example, in the Arctic, at the North Pole, all points are to the south, however, it makes a huge difference in what longitude one moves southward—35º East would take you to Jerusalem, but 35º West would take you to Recife, Brazil, a difference of some 8,000 miles after a 9,000 mile trip southward.

Northward runs about 336.5º to about 22.5º; Southward, runs about 157.5º to about l202.5º; these fall between Northwest and Northeast, and Southeast and Southwest

The difference in the narrow neck of land in the terms “northward” and “southward” would be no different in the same discussion as at the Panama Canal, or Aomori, Japan, or Ranong, Thailand, as well as numerous other places in the world, where two distinct land areas are separated by a narrow neck, isthmus, or waterway. The term “northward” and “southward” are neither unique to the Land of Promise nor anywhere else given a narrow division between land area.
Comment #3: “Comment: I read the other day that someone posted on the internet that these seven things “are some of the facts Here are some of the facts that we can easily deduce:
Lehi’s family arrived on the west coast.
The land of Nephi is south of the land of Zarahemla.
The River Sidon flows from south to north.
Zarahemla is west of the river Sidon.
The head (source) of the river Sidon is in Lamanite territory.
The narrow neck of land is toward the north.
There are seas on both the east and the west of the land.
Do you agree with these?” Clifford G.

All but one of these points are found in the scriptural record and the other is corrected by the record 

Response: Before answering your question, it is important to know that when you want to know something about someone’s belief, views, model, theory, etc., the first question to ask is “how do you know that?” Stated differently, how does the person know that “Lehi’s family arrived on the West Coast?” I would go further and ask, what west coast? Or, the west coast of where? Because if you know how he landed on the West Coast, then you would know exactly what West Coast he landed upon. That is, the winds and currents would allow for a basic west coast location for a vessel “driven for the before the wind” in 600 B.C. only in a specific location.
    Other than that, we do not know that the Sidon River originated in Lamanite territory. The best we can say is it was located somewhere within the narrow strip of wilderness between the Land of Zarahemla and the Land of Nephi according to Alma 22:27. Another point would be to ask, “the narrow neck of land is to the north of what?” And we can take exception to the last point the way it is written, for a more accurate statement, we can say, “There are seas on both the east and the west of the land, and both the north and the south” (Helaman 3:8)—not just the east and west, which is a Mesoamericanist comment, not singled out as the only two seas in the scriptural record.