Continuing with more comments on
our website and our responses:
Comment #1: “I read where the narrowest region between the ocean on either side of the land is the proposed Mesoamerican Model's narrow neck of land. The mileage of the narrow neck is from 75 to 125 miles across in distance. This is the mileage that a 'Nehphite' could travel in a day and a half. That seems a little long for me, but the author of the article thought it acceptable and not a matter of differentation." Cadman T.
Response: First of all, the distance across the
Tehuantepec isthmus at its shortest distance is 120 miles as the crow flies,
but 144 miles by land travel according to the government of Mexico distance
graphs. While we have covered this as much as any item in the scriptural
record, it always seems to keep coming up. Carr, Sorenson, Hender, and numerous
other Mesoamericanists believe that Mormon was talking about a Nephite
traveling that distance in a day and a half. The numbers simply do not bear
this out. Consider 120 miles distance, even walking day and night for 36 hours,
would require an average of 3.3 miles per
hour for thirty-six straight hours! My advice to people who want to
champion such a distance and claim it is no big deal, is to go out and try
walking at a 3 mile per hour pace and see how long they can maintain it.
Naturally, marathon runners, Sorenson’s Zuni Indian runners, Greece’s fabled Pheidippides
messenger at the Battle of Marathon in 490 B.C., or some other extraordinary
specialist could probably handle it—but no average citizen could do it. And if
you think Mormon, who was trying to give us an idea of how wide the narrow neck
of land was, used a unique specialist as his comparison, then you have missed
the entire purpose of his insertion of the Land of Promise description in Alma
22. You do have to love, however, how the Mesoamericanists accept this idea
about 120 miles in a day and a half and give it no further thought. The same
can be said how they love to shave the isthmus width down from 120 to 100, then
somehow arrive at 75 miles.
Comment #2: “A friend was telling
me about several pockets of Nephite resistance after the battle at Cumorah. In
fact, he quoted from some article that one of these 'pockets' of resistance,
Mormon had found a group of Nephites still standing and willing to resist
the Lamanite take over. And when confronted by one of the 'search out and
destroy units' of the Lamanites forces, the aged Mormon of some 80 years of
age, finally met his death in battle. The exact details of this event are
lacking in Moroni's report. Or perhaps he didn't have the details, just that
his father had finally fallen in battle. Or perhaps his meager record keeping
time did not allow such to be reported, or perhaps he just didn't feel to share
that information about his father's final death. What he does say is this,
"My father hath been slain in battle, and all of my kinfolk, . . ."
(Mormon 8:5). This report was recorded by Moroni 15 years after Cumorah in 400
AD" Avery T.
Response:
First of all, Moroni records this information in Mormon 9:1-5. There is no
mention of a date for these verses. Beginning in verse six, Moroni says
“Behold, four hundred years have passed away” (Mormon 9:6), telling us that
what follows was recorded in 400-401 A.D. However, assuming all of chapter 8
was written at the same time, we can see that some 15 years after Cumorah,
during which time Moroni claims to have been hiding from the Lamanites, he
reports to us in the first five verses the following:
1.
His father had commanded him to write in the record;
2.
The Nephites who had escaped had all been killed;
3.
His father had been killed by the Lamanites—he was slain in battle;
4.
Moroni is alone, and he is left to write the ending of his people;
5.
All the Nephites are gone—having been killed by the Lamanites;
6.
He does not know if the Lamanites will kill him also;
7.
He is going to write what his father commanded him then hide up the record;
8.
All Moroni’s kinfolk have also been slain by the Lamanites;
9.
He has no idea how long he will remain alive.
He
then gives us the date (400 A.D.), and summarizes that his people have all “been hunted down by the Lamanites from city
to city and from place to place, even until they are no more” (Mormon 8:7).
He then tells us that “the Lamanites are at
war one with another and the whole face of the land is one continual round of
murder and bloodshed and that no one knoweth the end of the war” (Mormon
8:8), adding, “there are none save it be
the Lamanites and robbers that do exist upon the face of the land” (Mormon
8:9). After summarizing these events, he goes on to write what his father had
commanded him. The idea there were “pockets of resistance” or that “Mormon
joined one of these resistance groups” is contrary to the scriptural record. As
Mormon wrote, “my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with
me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not
put an end to my life” (Mormon 6:10). Obviously the Lamanites thought Mormon
dead and continued onward in their battle. He recovered sufficiently, to make
his way to the top of the hill Cumorah, or was carried there by Moroni and/or others, where we see him the next morning
(Mormon 6:11) with 23 other survivors, including Moroni.
Frieberg’s painting may not be
accurate, but it depicts a wounded Mormon with his son Moroni on the hill
Cumorah, which was accurate
Comment #3: “The descendants of the Inca are
Lamanite and that the North American Indian are Lamanite and have been shown to
have lived in their lands during the Book of Mormon times” Star J.
Response: I am not sure what your
point is. There is no record, other than the Book of Mormon, sufficient to claim any of the Americas were
occupied during Book of Mormon times. All that can be used is carbon dating and
that is suspect at best. On the other hand, ancient buildings, which do not
exist in North America, but do in Central and South America, date to that era.
As for Incas, they did not exist during Book of Mormon times—their ancestors
did, but the Inca came into being about 1400 A.D. (some say 1200 A.D.) North
American tribes cannot be dated to Book of Mormon era—many believe they existed
then, but no proof can be shown, and certainly no achievements of a Nephite
level are found there, not withstanding the Hopewell mounds.
Comment #4: “It seems to me that during
Moroni’s 36-year wandering to escape the Lamanites, he could have traveled a
great distance. If the Nephite Cumorah was not in New York, Moroni could easily
have eventually come to modern New York state where he buried the plates. On
the other hand, he could have easily remained in the general area of the Nephite
destruction in his wanderings” Keifer W.
Response: Two things work against Moroni carrying the plates
anywhere while he was alive: 1) The Lamanite were searching for any surviving
Nephite and he undoubtedly would not have gone unnoticed; and 2) The Lamanites
would have destroyed the records if they could have found them. Had he been
carrying those records and the Lamanites ran across him, the records would have
been destroyed and he killed. Since neither event occurred, it seems more
likely he buried or hid the records somewhere. As he said, “Therefore
I will write and hide up the records in the earth; and whither I go it
mattereth not” (Mormon 8:4). While he wrote more, it would seem prudent on his
part to have hidden them somewhere and then retrieved them, then likely hidden
them again when he was finished.
It should be kept in
mind that in all this talk and discussion of how the plates got to upstate New
York, between the close of the Book of Mormon and the finding of the plates by
Joseph Smith, approximately 1400 years passed. To that God who created the
universe, those plates could have been placed in New York at any time, by
Moroni, by angels, or whoever or whatever means the Lord used.
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