Following are more of
the comments that have been sent in to our website that we are answering here:
Comment #1, “I ran across this map recently, but have no
idea of any article that was once attached to it. The map shows an interesting
idea about Mexico and Mesoamerica, as well as all of the United States area,
showing a large, overall Land of Promise. I was wondering if you have seen it
and what you think of it” Clark G.
Response: The map you
sent is one of several presented by Wheeler Research on a “Restored Israel”
website, which includes the subheading: “An LDS Perspective On the Restoration
of Israel, Scriptural Science, Prophesy, and the Building of Zion.” The best I
can uncover is that the author of all this is Tom Wheeler, a BYU graduate, but
since his name does not appear on the website, this might not be accurate. The problem
with the map is that it establishes a major issue with a cutaway of
northeastern Mexico, which he claims is an Ancient Extension of the Gulf of
Mexico, which, as far as my research has uncovered now and over the past, never
existed. At one time, a significant body of water (referred to as the Central
American Seaway) separated the continents of North and South America, allowing
the waters of the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans to mix freely through what is now Panama. Beneath the
surface, two plates of the Earth’s crust were slowly colliding, forcing the
Pacific Plate to slide under the Caribbean Plate, which movement eventually
forced some areas above sea level—specifically that area of lower Panama about 3
million years ago. Granted there is a difference between geological dates and
those of the biblical record, however the point is that there is no record at
any time of a waterway cutting into most of northern Mexico and forming a much
larger Gulf of Mexico as Wheeler claims. He has created this huge gulf in order
to create a narrow neck of land between Mexico and the U.S., the latter being
his Jaredite lands, from around the Rockies to the Atlantic Ocean.
Unfortunately, he gives no support to this gulf, its opening and or its closing,
and as a problem for him, there is a great deal known and understood
geologically about this entire area and nothing so far in print to agree with
his point of view. Until that can be resolved, and shown to be accurate, there
is no reason to pursue such a map or all the other claims he makes.
Comment #2: “I saw the attached map where the line between
Bountiful and Desolation was 50 miles and covered in 1.5 days” Killian.
A line from Buffalo, New York, to Consesus Lake, one of the Finger Lakes
just east of Geneseo, New York. This area has no narrow pass, no defensible
area, and can easily be skirted to the east of the lake between the other
several Finger Lakes. Also this so-called "Sea East" does not run completely along the
lands of Nephi and Zarahemla and cannot be said to nearly surround the Land
Southward
Response: The reference to which
you refer is taken from the "True Book of Mormon Geography" website and found
under the heading of “Line Bountiful: Line Defined” in which it refers to the
boundary line between lands, i.e., between Bountiful and Desolation, obviously
referring to Alma 22:32. I am always surprised to find people saying how far a
day and a half journey was for a Nephite. Mesoamerican Theorists claim it is
about 144 miles, with John L. Sorenson citing how far certain Indians have
been known to run. However, two things need to be kept in mind: 1) Mormon is
using this example for a future reader to understand the distance across the
narrow neck of land he is describing, and 2) Mormon knows this will be read by
a future reader in some distant generation and society, and uses a typical man
walking at a typical gate, otherwise the example is meaningless.
Consequently, how far can a
typical man walk in an 18 hour period with a 12 hour rest during darkness?
While the average man can walk about 3 miles an hour (one mile every 20
minutes), that pace cannot be maintained for very long. The simple answer is
merely to go out and see how far you can walk for four or five hours straight
without a break. Most men can cover about 3-4 miles the first hour, 2-3 miles
the second hour, 1-2 miles the third hour, and barely a mile the fourth hour,
for a maximum total of 7-10 miles before giving out. When pacing yourself at
about a 2 mile an hour gate, most men can cover 10 miles in five hours, but
give out after that.
When I was in the military, we had forced marches, 20-mile marches, 50-mile marches, etc. And even in top shape, walking on level ground, marching in route-step, with ten minute breaks every hour, the best record in the units I dealt with was approximately 15-20 miles for 10 hours. When moving across uneven ground, that distance dropped to about 10-15 miles in 10 hours, and across low hills, around cuts, stands of trees, etc., the pace dropped to about 10 miles in 10 hours. Of course, Herculean efforts are always recorded, miraculous achievements known, records achieved, but average men in average conditions—which would have been the objective of Mormon’s example—are far from record breaking.
When I was in the military, we had forced marches, 20-mile marches, 50-mile marches, etc. And even in top shape, walking on level ground, marching in route-step, with ten minute breaks every hour, the best record in the units I dealt with was approximately 15-20 miles for 10 hours. When moving across uneven ground, that distance dropped to about 10-15 miles in 10 hours, and across low hills, around cuts, stands of trees, etc., the pace dropped to about 10 miles in 10 hours. Of course, Herculean efforts are always recorded, miraculous achievements known, records achieved, but average men in average conditions—which would have been the objective of Mormon’s example—are far from record breaking.
The Boy Scouts have a 50/20 walk
event, where there is no sleeping break—just stopping occasionally for meals
usually delivered by others. The walks are generally on roads, typically level
ground or low hills, and you walk at your own pace, though generally you stay
in groups. On the two done in my area recently, the first one only two
teenagers finished out of the 48 (14 years to adult) that started, and in the
second, only four finished. All the others dropped out after ten, fifteen,
twenty miles, etc. Of the 6 that finished in the two events, only one was an
adult, the others were 16-18 year old teenagers, including two girls. But even
at 50 miles in 20 hours, the finish rate was 7%--hardly what might be
considered a typical accomplishment.
Of the 6 that finished in the two events, only one was an adult, the
others were 16-18 year old teenagers, including two girls. But even at 50 miles
in 20 hours, the finish rate was 7%--hardly what might be considered a typical
accomplishment. 65% never made it past the half-way point
So the next time you read about
the narrow neck of land that a Nephite could cross in a day and a half journey,
consider going out and verifying if that distance they claim is even
reasonable. Of course, you might run across the person who determined the fifty
miles above, who says: “The width of Book of Mormon
lands at Bountiful and Desolation was therefore 50 miles. If
the width of the Land Bountiful
in your model is more or less than 50 miles, it's wrong. The width of the
rest of Book of Mormon lands could be more, less, or the same.” My answer,
as always, is go out and do it, then tell me it was that width!
Comment #3: “I was reading Dr.
Joseph Allen’s book “Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon,” in which he
said, “Bruce Warren, coauthor of the
Messiah in Ancient America, discovered
that Ixtlilxochitl made an error in calculation that placed the creation of the
earth at 4825 BC and the flood date at 3109 BC.
For the sake of this study, I will place the 3114 BC date as
representative of the flood. I have not been able to reconcile the 2350 BC
flood date, which scholars derive from the Bible, with archaeological reports
or with Book of Mormon and Mesoamerican histories.” I assume you have an opinion
on this” Hernando Z.
Response: What I find
interesting about this time of reasoning is the willingness of Book of Mormon
scholars to take the word of Ixtlilxochitl or some other historian over that of
Moses and the Lord. The Flood occurred
in 2344 B.C. according to Genesis and the Book of Moses, and there is nothing
anyone can do about changing that fact for the Lord told it to Moses, and Moses
wrote it down chronologically. Perhaps it would be wise for Allen to reject
archaeological reports and Mesoamerican history in favor of the Biblical dating
system of the Flood as the Lord told it to Moses. As for Book of Mormon history, there is no
mention of the Flood by date, and only twice is the word flood used at all: 1)
Alma 10:22, referring to the Flood in the days of Noah, and 2) Ether 13:2, that
after the waters had receded from off the
face of this land, it became a choice land above all other lands. Thus, one can hardly have any difficulty with
Book of Mormon dates and the Flood. That
there would be problems with Mesoamerican history and the Mayan calendar may be
true, but that has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon history. And the fact that these two don't jive ought
to be another proof that the Lehi Colony did not land in Mesoamerica; however, with these Theorists, when questionable historical data disagrees with the revealed word of God in the Book of Mormon or the Bible, they will take so-called Mesoamerican history every time, which should cause a person to ask "why"?
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