Here are some more comments that
we’ve received on this website blog. Many are from readers who champion the
Costa Rica model, using the Isthmus of Rivas as the narrow neck of land.
Comment #1: “Can the Gulf of Mexico on both sides of the
Yucatan peninsula (Gulf of Honduras and Bay of Campeche) be considered two
different seas? It would take more evidence than what is mentioned in the Book
of Mormon to support it. The Book of Mormon does not support this and
examples from ancient societies does not support this. Also, there
is no precedent that people living near a peninsula considered the waters on
either side of the peninsula as two different bodies of water. Before 600
B.C., the people in the Middle East knew the Red Sea and Persian Gulf (as we
call them today) were connected around the Arabian Peninsula. Some
populations even called the Persian Gulf the Red Sea as an extension of the Red
Sea between Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Just because the two bodies of water
have different names today does not mean that they were always considered
to have two names” Andrey W.
The Caribbean Sea along the north-eastern
coast of the Yucatan Peninsula. Around the bend to the top of the image is the
Gulf of Mexico waters—one sea but with two names here and no division line
between
Response: I am in no
way defending the Mesoamerican model, however, there is certainly precedent to
name these two areas around the Yucatan Peninsula by different names. One is
called the Gulf of Mexico and the other is called then Caribbean Sea. What more
precedent do you need? It is interesting that when we were in Cancun recently,
I happened to ask some of the locals there about the seas surrounding the
Yucatan. No one seemed bothered or objectionable to the fact that north of
Cancun, the sea is the Gulf of Mexico, but to the east of Cancun, this same
body of water is called the Caribbean Sea. It is also called the Caribbean
south of Cuba, but north and west of Cuba it is the Gulf of Mexico—but all one
ocean. Yet, within the Caribbean Sea, the southwestern area along the southern
coast of Belize, is the Bay of Honduras, and within that, closer to shore is
the Bahia de Amatique, the Amatique
Bay, along the coasts of Guatemala and Belize. Of course, what is done today is
not necessarily true anciently is also accurate. Names of locations, seas, and
lands change over time. Consequently, this type of argument seems meaningless.
Comment #2: “The article “Who Were They Afraid Of? Part
I, is awesome. Hate to ask this as it shows that I may not be the student I
thought I was... but... did you bring this up in your book…Lehi Never Saw
Mesoamerica?” Mr. Nirom.
Response: Thank you.
But no, this was not included in the books, at least not directly. This blog is
a continuing process of study and learning, or expanding on previous knowledge
that did not make it into the books because of space and purpose. Hopefully, I
will get around to another book, which will include all the new ideas or
expanded understanding over the years since the first books were written.
Comment #3: “I appreciate that the Book of Mormon does
not directly mention other people in the land of promise. However, consider
Mosiah 25:2 (120 BC): ‘Now there were not so many of the children of Nephi, or
so many of those who were descendants of Nephi, as there were of the people of
Zarahemla, who was a descendant of Mulek, and those who came with him into the
wilderness. And there were not so many of the people of Nephi and of the people
of Zarahemla as there were of the Lamanites; yea, they were not half so
numerous.’ Why would there be so many more Lamanites than Nephites 580 years
after they separated in about equal numbers? The Mulekites were called Nephites
in the BoM because they united with them. All those that united with the
Lamanites were called Lamanites. If Laman and Lemuel and those who remained
with them married into tribes that existed in the New World, they would
eventually all be called Lamanites. Nephi and the record keepers that succeeded
him had a limited scope for their records. It is believable to me that this
detail of the Lamanites intermarrying with existing tribes could have remained
unwritten in the abridged Book of Mormon as we have it” George T.
Response: As for
equal numbers, when Nephi fled from his older brothers, he took all those who
would go with him “And all those who would go with me were those who believed
in the warnings and the revelations of God; wherefore, they did hearken unto my
words” (2 Nephi 5:6). We don’t know exactly the numbers in the Lehi Colony,
whether or not Lehi’s and Ishmael’s household servants went with them, or how
large the families of the married sons of Ishmael were, etc. We don’t even know
how many sisters Nephi had, for they are mentioned only once (2 Nephi 5:6), but
since it is a plural statement, there had to have been at least two. Experience
tells us that those who follow God are less than those who do not, so it is not
likely that this was an even break in the numbers. However, the main issue is
that when Mosiah fled from the Land of Nephi around 220 B.C., the
Nephites had become extremely wicked and the Lord separated those who followed
him from this evil city and land. Mosiah left and took with him “as many as
would hearken unto the voice of the Lord” (Omni 1:12-13). While we do not know
the numbers involved, after more than 350 years, the numbers would have been
significant, and again, experience tells us that those who went with Mosiah
would have been a much smaller number than those who remained in the Land of
Nephi. We do not know about the tens of thousands of Nephites left behind, it
can be assumed that many, if not most, or even all, would have ended up joining
the Lamanites and being called Lamanites from that time forward. Thus, the
original Lamanites who likely would have been larger in number than the
Nephites, had their numbers augmented while the Nephite numbers were reduced by
a very significant amount. After all, the numbers of non-members has always been
significantly larger than those who follow God. Look at the number deviation
after the 230 years of peace following Christ’s visit to the Nephites, when
Lamanites split from the Nephites, or the followers and believers in God (4
Nephi 1:36-38). The number of Lamanites at this point “became exceedingly
more numerous than were the people of God” (4 Nephi 1:40).
140 years later, the
Lamanites were so numerous, that when they came to the final battle every
Nephite soul, men, women and children were, “filled with terror because of the
greatness of their numbers” (Mormon 6:8). As for there being others in the
land, Lehi was told there were not, for the children of Lehi that they would
possess the land unto themselves (2 Nephi 1:9). Now, based on the scriptural
record, both Lehi and Nephi were shown the history of the Land of Promise from
their time forward without a single mention of any other people involved other
than the future coming of the gentiles (Spanish, English, Europeans); and
Moroni, reading Ether’s record, saw that the Land of Promise was a chosen land
and anyone on it should serve the Lord (Ether 13:2), and again did not mention
any other people than the ones we know. Mormon in his abridgement mentions the
Mulekites and tells us enough about them for us to know who they were and where
they came from and their involvement with Lehi’s family. So why should we even
consider that there were any other people anywhere around the Land of Promise,
let alone intermarried with one half of the principal participants in the land?
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