Monday, May 13, 2013

More Comments to be Answered Part II

Here are some more comments that we’ve received from this website blog.
Comment #1: “If this entire Western Hemisphere is the Land of Promise as you say, what about the promise that no kings would rule here? What about the Nephite, Lamanite, and possibly Mulekite kings that ruled here. And what about King George that ruled what is now the United States, and the Queen that rules in Canada, and the other European kings that ruled in Central and South America? It sounds like somebody is pulling the wool over someone’s eyes!” Joaquim
Some of the Nephite kings that ruled over the Land of Promise; LtoR: King Benjamin, King Noah, King Limhi
Response: This has been answered before here, but in short, the Book of Mormon kings were not gentiles and are not included in the prophesy. Canada is not actually ruled by the Queen of England, for they have their own parliament and prime minister—their relation to the Queen is more figurative than real. As for those of Mexico, Central and South America, they were gentiles and did reign, but not on this land, which is the key phrase in the prophesy. There have never been any gentile kings in the Western Hemisphere actually sitting on thrones in the countries over which they questionably ruled. All foreign kings were overthrown between about 1805 and 1830, which is an interesting time frame when dealing with the LDS Church and the prophet Joseph Smith.
Comment #2: “I have enjoyed everything you’ve written and posted, and look forward to reading more, however, I must confess I have a difficult time with the idea that most of South America was once under water and that there was an island there,” Edmund G.
Response: I’m sure you are not alone in this. Though it has been explain in the books written and on this website several times, let me just add this short comment in answer to your concern.
Top: The major plate tectonics of the world, shown as part of a theory that the Earth’s crust and upper mantle (lithosphere) are broken into sections (below this is the asthenosphere, which is very plasticlike); Bottom: Showing the plate to the left subducting below the plate on the right, which pushes up some portion of the top plate, often causing land and mountains to rise
The continent we call South America is made up of the Nazca plate and the South American plate, with the Caribbean plate to the north, the Cocos plate to the northwest and the Antarctic plate to the southwest, etc. All these tectonic plates make up the connected land mass that determines the shape and form of the land mass above the plates. As those plates move, the land masses move toward the top (like molding a lot of cookie dough--push in one area, and it moves out somewhere else). Thus, prior to and at the time of 600 B.C. through 34 A.D., those plates were in such a position, that the land mass at the top was not high enough to be above sea level. The mountain range we now know as the Andes had not yet risen above sea level, but was still part of the cordillera, that is, a rock base that moves up and down, forming mountains above in places, and causing canyons, valleys, etc., in others (often referred to as geologic folding). Sometimes these are sharp delineations, and sometimes they are gently rolling.
Now, when the Savior was crucified, the earth groaned, and through whatever process God used, the land changed. 3 Nephi, if read correctly, will show the "whole face of the earth changed," meaning in the Land of Promise—thus, the Caribbean plate dropped in the east, forming what we see today as numerous islands and brought Panama up above sea level (the cordillera) and lifted its connection to South America above sea level, bringing the eastern area of South America above sea level (though the Amazon basin, larger than the size of the U.S., is still barely above sea level), and the "continent" of South America became visible and the "island" of the BOM Land of Promise, to disappear into a much larger land mass above sea level, though still separated from the rest of the continent by the now Andes mountain range “whose height is great,” as Samuel the Lamanite prophesied.
The Cordilleras of South America create matching high mountain valleys. These cordilleras run far beneath the surface and are hard, granite-like rock formations that are pushed up from beneath by magna displacement
Whether or not man sees the land, continents, cordilleras, etc., this way, the Lord sees the land masses of the world as connected "earth" which he designed and organized (along with Adam and the other "gods" mentioned in the Book of Abraham). Sometimes part of his land is under water, sometimes it is not, according to his pleasure. Man’s problem is he tries to use his inferior thinking, knowledge, and understanding to determine what the Lord knows and means (often placing their own restrictions on the Lord because they do not know how it could be different).
Comment #3: “What do you think is meant by the term ‘Land of Promise’?” Kathryn C.
Response: Actually, there are numerous lands of promise, or lands the Lord has promised around the world to various people(s). The Land of Promise assigned to the Twelve Tribes as we all know was in Palestine (roughly from Egypt/Sinai to Lebanon, etc.) There were enormous promises made to the House of Israel regarding that land, and is the home of the Old Jerusalem (Zion) and will be re-established as such after the Lord appears on the Mount of Olives and the land is severed, etc. From it will go forth the Law during the millennial period.
Now, with all these promises, how is it that the northern kingdom (Ephraim/Samaria) and the southern kingdom (Judah) were separated, abandoned, etc.? All that land went through did not change the promise, change the division of the land to which the 12 tribes have a part (including Ephraim and Manasseh, though their full land division is the Western Hemisphere.)
The Land of Promise of the Book of Mormon encompasses several aspects: 1) The Jaredite promise; 2) the Lehi promise; 3) the new Jerusalem promise; etc. Now, the land overall that is choicest above all others is North and South America. This entire land in the days of Joseph Smith (the entire Western Hemisphere) was referred to as a single continent—the American Continent; the term North America and South America is a relatively new designation, which, by the way in overall terms eliminates Central America because it is not a continent and not considered either North or South America, though some geographers claim it is part of North America—which suggests we need to be careful how we figure terminology that is modern in nature and does not convey the same meaning as ancient scriptural references)
In any event, the land referred to by Moroni in Ether 2:12, referring to the Gentiles that would come to it—that is the Gentiles came to the Andean area of South America long before they did the area of the U.S., as well as to Central America, and even Mexico. The U.S. was the last to be colonized by the Gentiles—Ether 2:12 refers to the entire Western Hemisphere. It just so happens that the area of the United States will be the place where the government of Christ will flow outward from—first to the Western Hemisphere, then to the Eastern Hemisphere (we should recognize this since the Priesthood is centered in the Ephraimic lineage, as well as Manasseh—Judah lost his claim and will not be the first, but the last (as our missionary program even now demonstrates). The first to be converted after the Ephraimic lineage (U.S., England, Canada) was the Lamanites, both in the U.S. and elsewhere (Manasseh).
Thus, we should think of both North and South America as being the Land of Promise, and not try and restrict the Lord’s promise to an area we think is superior to another.

1 comment:

  1. Del.. You said: Now, when the Savior was crucified, the earth groaned, and through whatever process God used, the land changed. And then you show us how some of this happened.

    You have mentioned in posts previously that when the final battle was happening.. some 400 years later.. Mormon went as far north as he could.. and had to make a stand.. waiting for the Lamenites to come and annihilate his people... because he could not go any farther north as they were upon an isle of the sea.

    If the land connecting N and S America was now visible.. why did Mormon not continue running North with all these women and children.. rather than make a final stand?

    I am just trying to put in all in perspective.