Problems With Joseph Allen’s Map and Matching Points – Part I

Several comments are received from time to time regarding the Mesoamerican Theorists’ views of their model and its relationship to the scriptures. While they see no problem where it doesn’t match at all, they do like to tout their opinions where they think there are matches. Following is one of many such comments:    
    Comment #4: “It looks to me like the map presented on the BMAF website of the Jaredite lands in the Land Northward makes a lot of sense and their five points shows a match with Mesoamerica for the Land of Promise” Charlotte W.
    Response: The maps and five points you mention are but a limited number of the many matches that must exist for a model to show a Book of Mormon criteria. As an example, the five points listed are: 1) The area must show evidence of a high-level written language that was in use during the Book of Mormon time period for the Nephites, Lamanites, and Mulekites; 2) The area must reflect two high civilizations that show extensive evidence of major population centers, continual shifts in population demographics, extensive trading among the cultures, and almost constant warfare among the inhabitants—in harmony with the dates given in the Book of Mormon; 3) The archaeological dating of the proposed area must reflect thorough analyses of sites and artifacts with resulting radiocarbon dates that agree with the dates given in the Book of Mormon; 4) The historical evidence from the area must provide valid findings that dovetail with the customs and traditions associated with the peoples and dates of the Book of Mormon; and 5) The geographic configuration of the area must resemble an hourglass as a reflection of two land masses and a narrow neck of land (an isthmus) dividing the two. The hourglass must be on its side in a horizontal position to justify the Nephite cardinal directions of “northward” and “southward” associated with the two land masses.

This information is submitted by Joseph L. Allen, Blake J. Allen, and Ted D. Stoddard. Allen’s first book, you might remember, was Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon, in 1989, which was reviewed by us in the book: Inaccuracies of Mesoamerican & Other Theorists, which showed scores of disagreement with the Book of Mormon scriptural record in describing the Land of Promise. First of all, in the book Lehi Never Saw Mesoamerica, 65 different matches are listed---65, not just 5! Secondly, Allen uses comparative matches that are not spelled out in the Book of Mormon, such as an hourglass shape, a Mayan written language that does not match in any way with Hebrew or Reformed Egyptian, two of the only three written languages described in the Book of Mormon, although what the Jaredite language was or looked like is unknown, nor do we know to what extent the language was known throughout the Jaredite people. However, the written language shown by Mesoamerican Theorists is based upon the Maya language, which they claim would have been the Nephites. Thirdly, in this work referred to above, an attempt is made to show only those areas where Mesoamerica can claim matches to the record. However, five matches are hardly significant, but let’s take a look at them here:
    1. The area must show evidence of a high-level written language that was in use during the Book of Mormon time period for the Nephites, Lamanites, and Mulekites.
There is no question that a written language was used in Mesoamerica. However, it should be noted that Pohl, Pope, and von Nagy claim that “A cylinder seal and carved greenstone plaque bearing glyphs dating to 650 B.C. have been uncovered near the Olmec center of La Venta in Tabasco, Mexico. These artifacts, which predate others containing writing, reveal that the key aspects of the Mesoamerican scripts were present in Olmec writing: the combination of pictographic and glyphic elements to represent speech; the use of the sacred 260-day calendar; and the connection between writing, the calendar, and kingship. They imply that Mesoamerican writing originated in the La Venta polity.” The Olmec, according to archaeologists and anthropologists are said to have existed in Mesoamerica from about 1600 B.C., which is also the date claimed for the beginning of La Venta, Mexico, where the language is said to have begun. That is 1000 years before the Nephites, yet the above shows that the single language found in Mesoamerica claimed to have been Nephite period began long before the Nephites and covered all three group periods, i.e., Jaredites, Nephites and Mulekites. Now, if that is true, their historical evidence shows that the Jaredites, Nephites and Mulekites all used the same language, which is not consistent with the scriptural record.
    In addition, Mormon tells us the Lamanites would have destroyed the Nephite records (Mormon 6:6), which should suggest that since the Lamanites could not have read Reformed Egyptian, any writing to them would have been destroyed. The idea of destroying books, writing, etc., has been covered here many times, but the point is, why would anyone think that obvious writing, visible to all, would have remained after the Lamanites destroyed the Nephites? Certainly, when the Lord told Mormon the Lamanites would destroy their writing, He knew what He was talking about. So a written record should not be a criteria in the first place—it would have been destroyed.
    2. The area must reflect two high civilizations that show extensive evidence of major population centers, continual shifts in population demographics, extensive trading among the cultures, and almost constant warfare among the inhabitants—in harmony with the dates given in the Book of Mormon.
    True to their nature, the Mesoamerican Theorists ignore the Andean area of South America where two distinct population centers have been identified, and were involved in almost constant war as the numerous fortresses and fortified positions, forts, outposts and resorts testify and have been shown here many times. It should also be kept in mind, just because archaeologists and anthropologists make claims about happenings long before recorded history, does not make it so. Can anyone know the details of a populace in Mesoamerica during Book of Mormon times? Most of what we know about that period in Mesoamerica was written by Indians after they were converted to Christianity, drawing upon memory of those they knew over one thousand years after the events. In addition, while the sites in Andean Peru show hilltop fortresses, stone walls, forts, outposts and resorts as outlined in the Book of Mormon, the vast majority of sites in Mesoamerica were not built for defense, and have no significant defensive walls around their buildings, cities, or complexes. If there was constant war (and there was in the Land of Promise) then where are the Mesoamerican signs of defensive walls and buildings?

Top: Mesoamerican Palenque Mayan site in southern Mexico, shows the typical Mesoamerican structures without any type of walls or defensive positions built in or around the buildings; Bottom: The three-tier, zig-zag defensive walls at Sacsayhuaman in Andean Peru surrounding a huge temple and building complex overlooking Cuzco 
    3. The archaeological dating of the proposed area must reflect thorough analyses of sites and artifacts with resulting radiocarbon dates that agree with the dates given in the Book of Mormon.
    This is probably one of the most ridiculous ideas in any matching, since radiocarbon dating (C-14) is so suspect as has been reported here on numerous occasions. However, when we get past the soft evidence like pottery shards, etc., and into the hard evidence of stonework and buildings, almost all sites in Mesoamerica date to the last century B.C. and early centuries A.D., as has also been reported here numerous times and in the book Lehi Never Saw Mesoamerica. On the other hand, dating of Andean areas of South America are shown to be during the Jaredite-Nephite period in almost every case—especially such areas as Tihuanaco and Sacsayhuaman, which would have been the earliest Nephite areas. 

(See the next post,” Problems With Joseph Allen’s Map and Matching Points – Part II,” for the last two of his points, and how his map stacks up to the scriptural record and why Mesoamerica cannot be the Land of Promise)