Don R. Hender writes in his article Logic of the Aftermath of Cumorah, stating
that “after the last great battle, there
were only 24 of the combatants of the Nephites left alive. But unlike the
Jaredite wars of extinction which gathered every living soul in unto the
frenzy, the Nephite demise was not that of every living soul. It was the demise
of a nation and there where still those of Nephite descent left alive. Many of
these where Nephite dissenters who had defected over to the Lamanite cause (See
Mormon's letter to Moroni, Moroni chapter nine that states that there had been
Nephite dissenters and that they expect many more and as I make the letter date
to be that associated with the Jordan defense).”
Response:
Let’s cut in here for a little course correction. At the time of this letter to
his son, Mormon is writing long before the gathering of the last battle at
Cumorah. Chapters 8 and 9 in Mormon are written by Moroni: “I have but few things to write,
which things I have been commanded by my father” (Mormon 8:1); and after
abridging the Jaredite record, Moroni returns to write more himself (Moroni
1:1), in which he ends his writing by including a couple of letters his father
had written to him in previous years (Moroni 8:1; 9:1). Since in the second
letter, Mormon describes the debauchery of the Nephites and shows that they are
even more depraved than the Lamanites, we might place this around the time that
Mormon stated of the Nephites: “I saw that the
day of grace was passed with them, both temporally and spiritually; for I saw
thousands of them hewn down in open rebellion against their God, and heaped up
as dung upon the face of the land. And thus three hundred and forty and four
years had passed away” (Mormon 2:15), which was around 345 A.D. We can also
suggest that the Nephites by abut 366 A.D. had become so wicked, that Mormon
writes: “And it is
impossible for the tongue to describe, or for man to write a perfect
description of the horrible scene of the blood and carnage which was among the
people, both of the Nephites and of the Lamanites; and every heart was
hardened, so that they delighted in the shedding of blood continually. And
there never had been so great wickedness among all the children of Lehi, nor
even among all the house of Israel, according to the words of the Lord, as was
among this people (Mormon 4:11-12).
Article:
“Also, it seems to be indicated that
unlike the Jaredite round up which gathered every living soul into the frenzy,
the Nephite round up of Mormon had left some remote pockets of Nephites who did
not join in the battle but still believe in Christ as the Lamanites continued
to seek them all out and kill whoever would not deny Christ.”
Response: Mormon
makes it clear that they were fleeing from city to city and “the Nephites did
again flee from before them, taking all the inhabitants with them, both in
towns and villages” (Mormon 4:22), and spells out the result of those who did
not join the Nephite retreat, “whatsoever lands we had passed by, and the
inhabitants thereof were not gathered in, were destroyed by the Lamanites, and
their towns, and villages, and cities were burned with fire” (Mormon 5:5). It
is not likely that any Nephites were not involved. This was a Lamanite
instigated bloodbath of all Nephites. No doubt, when the Lamanites took the
cities where Nephites had been left behind or could not keep up, there were
given a choice, “Deny the Christ, or die” and all those who did not deny the
Christ were killed. In fact, Moroni makes it quite clear—after Mormon’s death
and the final battle of annihilation of the Nephites, he states: “the
Lamanites have hunted my people, the Nephites, down from city to city and from
place to place, even until they are no more” (Mormon 8:7).
Article: “Thus Nephites
descendants who had or would defect to the Lamanite cause where still in
existence.”
Response:
Those Nephites who defected were thereafter called Lamanites (Alma 43:4), and
those who joined the Lamanites (Alma 59:6) brought the curse of dark skin upon
themselves “dark according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which
was a curse” (Alma 3:5, 7). “Therefore, whosoever suffered himself to be led
away by the Lamanites was called under that head, and there was a mark set upon
him” (Alma 3:10). They were no longer Nephites!
Article: “Also
the seed of the Nephites who had mixed with the Lamnaites where still in
existence. And, by deduction, the Nephites who would deny and abandon their
belief and faith and Christ where not put to death. So 'Nephites' as a people
still remained but not as an identifiable people.”
Response:
This is simply not true since the Lord said, “I will set a mark upon him that mingleth his seed
with thy brethren, that they may be cursed also. And again: I will set a mark
upon him that fighteth against thee and thy seed. And again, I say he that
departeth from thee shall no more be called thy seed” (Alma 3:15-17). Thus it
can be concluded that whoever defected from the Nephites to join the Lamanites
became Lamanites in name, appearance, and genetics, since their skin color was
changed to that of the Lamanites. The Lord made it clear they were no longer
Nephites in any way.
Article: So it was only the Nephite
nation which professed to follow after Christ that disappeared.”
Response:
This is a typical approach most Theorists take. They create a scenario that is
not correct, is opposed to the scriptural record, then use it to establish a
fact that is completely erroneous, yet try to claim it is correct. The Nephite
nation, and the Nephite people, were all destroyed—any who defected to the
Lamanites became Lamanite and did not remain Nephite.
Article:
“So when Mormon gathered in all of his
people to battle the Lamanites at Cumorah, that wasn't all of the Nephites. It
was just all of the Nephites that where willing answer the 'call' to fight and
take a stand for their liberty, families, and beliefs as Nephites as a nation.”
Response:
It is interesting that someone can read the scriptural record and ignore what
it says. “Whatsoever lands we had passed by, and the inhabitants thereof were
not gathered in, were destroyed by the Lamanites, and their towns, and
villages, and cities were burned with fire” (Mormon 5:5). Again “that wasn’t
all of the Nephites” is a completely erroneous statement—it was not a volunteer
army that Mormon commanded. You either went with the Army or the Lamanites
destroyed you, burned your village and left waste and destruction behind.
Article:
“And as wicked as most of 'these'
Nephites were”
Response:
Mormon does not use the term “most” nor does he imply it. He tells us of the
Nephites: “the day of grace was passed with them, both temporally and
spiritually” (Mormon 2:15). This means that the salvation of the Nephites had
passed, that God’s mercy was no longer in effect, that the atonement did not
cover them. Mormon makes no distinction between people—he was talking about the
Nephite people, not just his Army.
Article:
“[The Nephites] still retained their identity
as a Nephite nation and were willing to fight and die for 'their Country' and
'freedom from Lamanite oppression.”
Response:
At the time Mormon covers, and right up until the final battle at Cumorah, the
Nephites retained their identity as a people and as a nation. Whether they were
willing to fight and die for their country or not, we do not know. That they
had no choice but to fight is self-evident by the conditions Mormon describes.
Article:
“The 'Nephites' that where not present at
this final battle where those who refused to answer the 'call to battle' and go
to battle and fight against the Lamanites”
Response:
There is nothing in the scriptural record to suggest or even hint that not
everyone was involved in this mass revolution. When the battle was over, Moroni
makes the statement; “I am alone” (Mormon 8:5), and when he states: “the Lamanites have hunted my
people, the Nephites, down from city to city and from place to place, even
until they are no more” (Mormon 8:7), and also: “for
there are none save it be the Lamanites and robbers that do exist upon the face
of the land” (Mormon 9:9), we ought to conclude that the Nephite people were
all dead. Moroni goes on to say, “yea, great and marvelous is the destruction of my people,
the Nephites” (Mormon 8:7), he is not telling us “part” or “a portion” or
“some” or “most.” He is describing “all.”
(See the next post, “Was Every Nephite Killed in 385
A.D.? – Part II,” for more information about whether or not every Nephite was
killed in 385 A.D.)
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
I agree with your analysis of this. The Nephites that left on Hagoth's ships to the Land Northward probably lost their identity as Nephites after a few generations. Accepting a South American geography for the BoM account, the word Northward in Alma 63:5 means that these people went to Central or North America, not to the pacific islands that would be Westward of them. The Nephites are described as " exceedingly fair" (1 Nephi 13:15) and to my knowledge none of the indigenous people in North or Central America were exceedingly fair by the time the Europeans came.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, we do not know what happened to those who went north in Hagoth's ships. That they settled in Meso- and Central America is obvious from the similar ruins and roads; however, we know nothing of these Nephites going into the U.S. We do know that Zelph's skeleton was found in Illinois near Griggsville. However, Zelph was not a Nephite as E.D. Howe wrote in his anti-Mormon book "Mormonism Unveiled," but identified by Joseph Smith as a while Lamanite warrior officer or chieftan, who lived and served under the Prophet Onandagus, who is not further identified other than his being known from the mountains to the sea. In addition, the journal records and reports of those involved are conflicting in many ways, leading William J. Hamblin to write "there are many difficulties that make it nearly impossible for us to know exactly what Joseph Smith said in 1834 as he reflected on the ruins his group encountered in Illinois."
ReplyDeleteAs for the white skin, there are numerous reports from the early conquering Spaniards of groups of light-skinned natives found in various areas, from Peru in South America to Mesoamerica. Some claim there were light-skinned natives found in the U.S. Such reports may be accurate, or someone's wishful thinking. That is why I stick strictly to the scriptural record to determine anything about the Jaredite to Nephite era and their location.