Monday, June 6, 2016

Were There Volcanoes Involved in the Destruction of 3 Nephi? – Part IV

Continuing with the previous three posts regarding the descriptions about the three days of darkness in 3 Nephi at the time of the crucifixion, and the disagreement over volcano eruptions between Mesoamericanists and the Great Lakes/Eastern U.S./Heartland theorists. 
    In the previous post, we discussed “inventions” that, in all reality, we have no idea, even today, as to what they were or how they worked or what damage they did, nor do we know how far they shot whatever payload they hurled, how large were the “arrows” and “stones” involved, etc. The purpose of the inventions is said to be to “shoot arrows and hurl large stones.” The word translated as “shoot” and “hurl” is the Hebrew verb yarah, which is used many times to describe a bow shooting an arrow. But it is also used in 2 Samuel 11:20-24, in which Jonah reports that the defenders of the wall “shot from off the wall upon thy servants and some of the king’s servants were killed (including Uriah).” And Joab told the messenger: “And if so be that the king’s wrath arise, and he say unto thee, Wherefore approached ye so nigh unto the city when ye did fight? knew ye not that they would shoot from the wall?”
The obvious explanation of all of this is that these devices were catapults. But this merely raises another question. The generally accepted history of the catapult holds that it was first invented in the Greek city-state of Syracuse on the island of Sicily in 399 B.C. The Syracusan general Dionysius I had led a military coup in 405 B.C. that overthrew Syracuse’s democratically elected government and installed himself as a dictator. His first acts were to put Syracuse’s society and economy on a war footing in preparation for attacking Carthage, who controlled the western half of Sicily, and seize total control of the island. In order to do this, Dionysius brought in engineers from around the Greek world to work on inventing new weapons. The Greeks in Italy had previously invented an early crossbow called the gastraphetes, which could shoot an arrow further than a bow. Dionysius’ engineers took this a step further and created the idea of using levers, springs and torque to fling even larger arrows and boulder-throwing machines for attacking Carthaginian fortifications.
However, Uzziah was king five hundred years before Dionysius. Yet, in the mid eighth century, at the same time as Uzziah, a text from Egypt describing the Egyptian Pharaoh Piye’s siege of Hermopolis states that the attacking Egyptian army included “hurlers” made out of wood. Unfortunately, that is all we know—a “hurler” was something made of wood that evidently hurled things (Alan R. Schulman, “Military Organization in Pharaonic Egypt,” in Civilizations of the Ancient Near East, Vol. I, ed. by Jack Sasson (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1995), 298-299)
    The point of all of this is to suggest that writers with limited vocabulary of futuristic things to them were difficult to write about. How the disciple Nephi wrote about volcanoes and three days of darkness would be interesting to know for certain, but we do not know what caused the three days of darkness unless it was the volcanoes, volcanic ash, etc., as has been suggested here. Because a writer of the past did not use a word we would know today does not necessarily mean he did not intend such a word, but that it was simply unknown to him. The point remains, however, and cannot be dismissed merely because a known word of today was not used in the past to describe such an event. As has been pointed out in this series, ancient writers were often left to describe futuristic events in ancient terminology that was not self-explanatory—but the events did happen. Something caused three days of darkness and we cannot just chalk it up to the Lord did it and be satisfied when a very plausible explanation existsand has happened time and again over history and in the present time frame, i.e., volcanoes and volcanic ash turning bright sunlight into night.
As stated in the first post of this series, the word “volcano” did not exist in the Hebrew language of antiquity. In fact, the word was relatively unknown, originally coming from the name of the Roman god Vulcan (Volcānus or Vulcānus;), the god of fire, who was said to have made tools and weapons for the other gods in his workshop at Olympus. Throughout history, volcanoes have frequently been identified with Vulcan and other mythological figures. Scientists now know that the "smoke" from volcanoes, once attributed by poets to be from Vulcan's forge, is actually volcanic gas naturally released from both active and many inactive volcanoes. As the God of Fire, Vulcan was depicted with a blacksmith’s hammer and said to wield power over the fires emanating from mountains—in Greek mythology he was Hephaestus, the god of fire and smithery, and the Etruscan religion identified him as Sethians. And what fires emanate from mountains other than volcanoes?
Vulcan was first mentioned by Marcus Terentius Varro (between 116 B.C. and 27 B.C.), sometimes called Varro Reatinus, in his list of a series of deities. A shrine is claimed to have been identified with Vulcan dated to 214 B.C., according to Archaic Roman Religion: Volume One. trans. Philip Krapp. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press.1996 [1966] pp. 320–321. 
    While the name origin is debated, it is claimed to have been associated with the Latin words connected to lighting (fujlgur, gulgere, fulmen) which in turn was thought of as related to flames, and Vulcan’s oldest shrine is thought to be Vulcanal where Romulus and Tatius concluded the peace treaty between the two tribes known as the Latins. Later the statue or shrine was dedicated there sometime prior to 9 A.D.
    All of this, of course, suggests that the Vulcan god did not exist in 600 B.C. when Lehi left, was not part of the wordage that eventually became known as "volcano," and was unknown in any language prior to some 500 years later. Thus, when the disciple Nephi and later Mormon wrote of 3 Nephi 8, there was no singular word or phrase that meant “volcano” in either Hebrew or Egyptian as we have shown earlier. Thus, when Great Lakes theorists write: “The premise, of course, is that 3 Nephi describes volcanoes. Somehow Mormon supposedly described all the things a volcano did but didn't think to simply write, "Volcanoes erupted." That's no problem when you read the text with the Mesoamerican spectacles, though; the word is apparently on every page, invisible to anyone not wearing these specs.”
    Once again, Mormon had no word for “volcano” as we have pointed out. Vulcan, from which volcano comes to us, was not even a word in 600 B.C. when Lehi left Jerusalem—was coined about 400 years later. Yet, something caused the three days of darkness and was associated with the trembling of the earth (“it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder”) for 3 hours, sharp lightenings (“never had been known in all the land”) and thunder (3 Nephi 8:6-7). Whatever it was, Mormon did not have a singular word or phrase to describe it, so we are left with the description, but not the wordage.
    In another rather humorous comment, the Great Lakes theorist writes: “Research has shown that there are no volcanoes east of the Rocky Mountains in North America, aside from four extremely ancient ones (dating between 65 million and 1.5 billion years ago) In other words, research has shown that North America, east of the Rocky Mountains, is just like the place the Book of Mormon text describes—no volcanoes in the time frame during which the Nephites and Lamanites inhabited the land.”
    Response: First of all, not as single lake is mentioned in all of the scriptural record; the Book of Mormon makes no claim there is more than one river in the entire Land Southward of the Land of Promise, and no more than the Waters of Mormon and Sebus besides the Waters of Sidon, does that mean there was no other water in the entire Land Southward? One might wonder how the Nephites and Lamanites subsided on such limited water resources if this type of thinking is accurate. According to the scriptural record, the Nephites were involved in the building of ships and shipping, yet we know of only one port, and that was where Hagoth built his ships. Were there no other shipbuilders, shipyards or ports, which would be odd for a people involved in shipping and ship building.
    Secondly, the scriptural record makes several comments about mountains in the Land of Promise, some of which, if not all, “whose height is great,” yet our theorist conveniently neglects to mention that in his “just like the place the Book of Mormon text describes.” As an example: “And the earth was carried up upon the city of Moronihah that in the place of the city there became a great mountain” (3 Nephi 8:10). I would invite our theorist to show us one single mountain anywhere in the Great Lakes Western New York area claimed to be the Land of Promise—a single mountain that could be called “great.” In fact, I’ll even settle for hills as in “and made hills and valleys in the places thereof” (3 Nephi 9:8) since there are no hills in western New York since the entire claimed Land  of Promise area does not rise anywhere above 1300 feet from the shoreline of about an aveage of 500 feet, or rises more than 800 feet in a gradual rise. But I would prefer to be shown all the mountains that rose up from valleys “whose height is great” (Helaman 14:23).
    Obviously, the area of the Great Lakes is NOT like the "text of the Book of Mormon" describesnot at all!
The word hurricane was coined by Spanish conquerors in the 16th century from an Arawak word in the “Taino” language from the Carib Indians of the West Indies: “huracan” meaning “storm.” It was taken from “hunraken” the name of the Mayan storm god. It is difficult to say when such storms were separated into hurricanes, typhoons and cyclones, but whichever word described, the wordage of Mormon when he says that “there were some who were carried away in the whirlwind; and whither they went no man knoweth, save they know that they were carried away” (3 Nephi 8:16). Now what would a “whirlwind” of such force be?
(See the next post, ”Were There Volcanoes Involved in the Destruction of 3 Nephi? – Part V,” as we continue with the descriptions about the three days of darkness in 3 Nephi at the time of the crucifixion, and the disagreement over volcano eruptions between Mesoamericanists and the Great Lakes/Eastern U.S./Heartland theorists)


  1. Deconstructing Del DowDell - Part 1

    1. DowDell has dedicated his books to what he calls "the plainness of Nephi" (Amazon Book Description) and yet the domain name for his site is "Nephicode." Apparently Nephi's words are not "plain" and Del is the only one who has "decoded" them. Oh yes, he frequently reiterates how "other" authors have dishonored the text of the BOM and assures readers he never does/did:

    2. DowDell claims to be unbiased in all his thinking:

    "His love for the absolute accuracy in the Book of Mormon has resulted in this work..." (Lehi Never Saw Mesoamerica, About the Author)

    "Not a single scripture has been altered, changed, or explained away...At no point has the author relied solely on the understanding, teachings, or discoveries of man;" (Lehi Never Saw Mesoamerica, p. 771)

    Even Sorenson admits his own work was tainted by "preconceptions." The very view that a person holds "no bias" is in itself a bias, ripe with arrogance. The following refutes prove he (along with all of us) is highly flawed in his theories.


    "..if not volcanoes, what then? Something caused the three days of darkness!" (

    Because the area in his model is saturated with volcanoes, DowDell can see no other way to explain the "three days of darkness" or the "selective destruction" that happened during the coming of Christ than by volcanoes. Unfortunately, this type of destruction was NEVER before experienced, i.e. it was not volcanoes:

    5 Storm such as never had been known in all the land. (3 Nephi 8)

    So how did God do it? The same way He did to the Egyptians:

    21 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.
    22 And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
    23 They saw not one another, neither rose any from his place for three days: but all the children of Israel had light in their dwellings. (Exodus 10:21-23)


    In trying to claim the "Great Wall of Peru" as BOM DowDell said:

    "Rock walls in connection with small forts are well discussed in Alma 48:8" (p. 366)

    Let's see how well "rock walls" are explained in that verse:

    8 Yea, he had been strengthening the armies of the Nephites, and erecting small forts, or places of resort; THROWING UP BANKS OF EARTH ROUND ABOUT to enclose his armies and ALSO BUILDING WALLS OF STONE to encircle them about, round about their cities and the borders of their lands; yea, all round about the land. (Alma 48:8)

    That is the only reference to the use of stones. Further (and multiple) descriptions of these fortifications do not use the word "stone," only "dig" "durt" "ditch" and "bank":

    2 And behold, the city had been rebuilt, and Moroni had stationed an army by the borders of the city, and they had CAST UP DIRT ROND ABOUT to shield them from the arrows and the stones of the Lamanites; for behold, they fought with stones and with arrows.
    4 But behold, how great was their disappointment; for behold, the Nephites had DUG UP A RIDGE OF EARTH ROUND ABOUT THEM WHICH WAS SO HIGH that the Lamanites could not cast their stones and their arrows at them that they might take effect, neither could they come upon them save it was by their place of entrance.
    18 Now behold, the Lamanites could not get into their forts of security by any other way save by the entrance, because of the HIGHNESS OF THE BANK WHICH HAD BEEN THROWN UP AND THE DEPTH OF THE DITCH WHICH HAD BEEN DUG ROUND ABOUT, save it were by the entrance. (Alma 49)

    1. This one is a real problem for you folks that believe in the NA model because you don't have anything like this in your model. I'm a geologist and I can clearly see volcanic eruptions and mountain building in the 3 hour earthquake/volcanic eruption. Where is this in your fantasy model of North America?

      The great Peru wall is mentioned in Helaman 4. Where is your wall? Did it sink into the earth during all that earthquake activity? This is one of the greatest reasons your model is nonsense. Here you find the wall right were it should be south of the narrow neck in South America and about 40 miles long from the west sea to the east sea. Sure fits pretty good there buddy. You must be jealous not to have such a good fit as this one. Ira

    2. Roy, I'll see if I can find the exact quote (either in the books or on this site), but I believe the term NephiCode is explained as not being a code at all, but simply taking Nephi's (and other writers') words at face value rather than trying to find hidden meanings.

  2. Deconstructing Del DowDell - Part 2

    This is why Dr. Nibley said:

    "The Book of Mormon is a history of a related primitive church, and one may well ask what kind of remains the Nephites would leave us from their more virtuous days. A closer approximation to the Book of Mormon picture of Nephite culture is seen in the earth and PALISADE STRUCTURES of the Hopewell and Adena culture areas than in the later STATELY PILES OF STONE in Mesoamerica." (Hugh Nibley, The Prophetic Book of Mormon, 1989, p. 272.)

    Whatever cement structures existed in the Land Northward were destroyed at the coming of Jesus and since they now had timber, they did not rebuild with cement:

    12 EXCEEDING GREAT QUAKING of the whole earth…
    14 And many great and notable cities were sunk, and many were burned, and many were SHAKEN TILL THE BUILDINGS THEREOF HAD FALLEN TO THE EARTH (3 Nephi 8) 


    At the front of DowDell's theory is the simple approach of learning what the wind and sea currents were "back then" and then he could pinpoint with complete acuracy where Lehi landed:

    "Using wind and sea currents available to Lehi's ship in 600 B.C. THERE COULD BE ONLY ONE CONCLUSION to a route and landing site." ( p.771)

    "THAT LANDING SITE OF COURSE, is along the western coast of South America, in the Andean countries of northern Chile, Peru, and Ecuador" (p.772)

    And, since no one had the expertise to sail around the world back then, despite being on very predictable wind and sea routes, they would never be discovered:

    "So it was that the natural elements of sea currents and winds kept the discoverers at home. Without the instruments for measuring position and distance upon the oceans, there could be no out-of-sight-of-land navigation. And without the proper ship-and-sail combinations, there could be no deep ocean sailing. And in this way, the Lord kept the land of promise from discovery until He was ready to fulfill the prophecies and visions that both Lehi and Nephi were given (1 Nephi 13:10, 12-13, 15)."

    Of course this theory won't work because we now know that people WERE traversing the globe before and after that time and the only reason the Nephites were NEVER DISCOVERED is because they were NOT on predictable wind and sea currents. "Accoding to the scriptures" the Lord

    5 And it came to pass that THE LORD GOD CAUSE THAT THERE SHOULD BGE A FURIOIUS WIND BLOW upon the face of the waters, TOWARDS THE PROMISED LAND; and thus they were tossed upon the waves of the sea before the wind. (Ether 6)

    This was a supernatural wind cause by God for when they disfavored Him, the supernatural help stopped and the NORMAL wind currents DROVE THEM BACK:

    13 Wherefore, they knew not whither they should steer the ship, insomuch that there arose a great storm, yea, a great and terrible tempest, and we were DRIVEN BACK upon the waters for the space of three days; and they began to be frightened exceedingly lest they should be drowned in the sea; nevertheless they did not loose me.
    14 And on the fourth day, which we had been DRIVEN BACK, the tempest began to be exceedingly sore.
    21 And it came to pass that I prayed unto the Lord; and after I had prayed the winds did cease, and the storm did cease, and there was a great calm.
    22 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did guide the ship, that we SAILED AGAIN TOWARDS the promised land.
    23 And it came to pass that after we had sailed for the space of many days we did arrive at the promised land; (1 Nephi 18:21–23)

    1. Roy, hmmm very odd comments. The sea route to North America is 2 times the distance to South America. Also the scriptures say that the Jaredites were brought into the land Northward and the Nephites into the land Southward. How is that possible where according to your model they landed in the gulf states. Your theory is pure fantasy.

      Another thing you don't seem to understand is that Nephi was not a sailor. He did not know how to tack. This is made quite clear. The Jaredites didn't know how to tack either because they were driven before the wind. The winds blow out of Arabia, south of Australia to South America. It fits very well whereas the NA model doesn't work at all. This is a landmark work by Del and I congratulate him for this discovery. You would do well to read his works rather than relying on such nonsense as Neville's and May stuff.

  3. Deconstructing Del DowDell - Part 3


    Not surprisingly DowDell entirely ignores land promises and prophecies:

    20 Shall be led to a land of promise; yea, even a land which I have prepared for you; yea, a land which is CHOICE ABOVE ALL OTHER LANDS. (1 Nephi 2)

    30 Nevertheless, thou beholdest that the Gentiles who have gone forth out of captivity, and have been lifted up by the power of God ABOVE ALL OTHER NATIONS, upon the face of the land which is CHOICE ABOVE ALL OTHER LANDS, which is the land that the Lord God hath covenanted with thy father that his seed should have for the land of their inheritance; (1 Nephi 13)

    5 But, said he, notwithstanding our afflictions, we have obtained a land of promise, a land which is CHOICE ABOVE ALL OTHER LANDS; a land which the Lord God hath covenanted with me should be a land for the inheritance of my seed. Yea, the Lord hath covenanted this land unto me, and to my children forever, and also all those who should be LED OUT OF OTHER COUNTRIES BY THE HAND OF THE LORD. (2 Nephi 1)

    19 Wherefore, I will consecrate this land unto thy seed, and them who shall be numbered among thy seed, forever, for the land of their inheritance; for it is a CHOICE LAND, saith God unto me, ABOVE ALL OTHER LANDS, wherefore I will have all men that dwell thereon that they shall worship me, saith God. (2 Nephi 10)

    10 For behold, this is a land which is CHOICE ABOVE ALL OTHER LANDS; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; (Ether 2)

    20 And thus the Lord did POUT OUT HIS BLESSING UPON THIS LAND, which was CHOICE ABOVE ALL OTHER LANDS; and he commanded that whoso should possess the land should possess it unto the Lord, (Ether 9)

    2 For behold, they rejected all the words of Ether; for he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man; and that after the waters had receded from off the face of this land it became a CHOICE LAND ABOVE ALL OTHER LANDS, a chosen land of the Lord; (Ether 13)

    1. Looks to me like both North and South America fits that description very well. The other nations worship Christ much more so that we do here in America now. So your argument really falls flat on this one. Ira

  4. Deconstructing Del DowDell - Part 4

    It is entirely clear which nation and land these prophecies are speaking of. In particularly, the following fulfilled prophecy finds fulfillment with no other nation than the blessed United States, therefore BOM lands ARE within the boundaries of its government - not Colombia, Ecuador, or Peru:

    10 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld many waters; and they divided the Gentiles from the seed of my brethren.
    11 And it came to pass that the angel said unto me: Behold the wrath of God is upon the seed of thy brethren.
    12 And I looked and beheld a man among the Gentiles, who was separated from the seed of my brethren by the many waters; and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land.
    13 And it came to pass that I beheld the Spirit of God, that it wrought upon other Gentiles; and they went forth out of captivity, upon the many waters.
    14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten.
    15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.
    16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles who had gone forth out of captivity did humble themselves before the Lord; and the power of the Lord was with them.
    17 And I beheld that their mother Gentiles were gathered together upon the waters, and upon the land also, to battle against them.
    18 And I beheld that the power of God was with them, and also that the wrath of God was upon all those that were gathered together against them to battle.
    19 And I, Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles that had gone out of captivity were delivered by the power of God out of the hands of all other nations.
    20 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld that they did prosper in the land; and I beheld a book, and it was carried forth among them. (1 Nephi 13:10–21)

    1. Verses 10-16 Nephi sees the coming of Christopher Columbus and the great migration to the land of promise during the period before the revolutionary war. I find it interesting that the Spirit of the Lord was with the many of the gentiles. Also mentioned is the fact that the seed of Nephi’s brethren were smitten by the gentiles. It is generally assumed that the American Indians were the ones spoken of here, but we should keep in mind that during the period of time from Columbus to the revolutionary war the Spanish conquistadors conquered and persecuted many native people of North and South America. This story is not told as much as the story of the America Indians. In fact, the American Indians were largely not harassed until the middle of the 19th century. Ira

  5. Deconstructing Del DowDell - Part 5


    Dowdell made the same mistake as many modelers of place the Sea South, south of the Land Southward:

    "Four seas surrounding the Land of Promise. The scriptures make more mention of the east, west, north, and south seas surrounding the Land of Promise than any other geographical condition with the exception of the Narrow Neck of Land separating the Land Northward from the Land Southward. The Land of Nephi and the Land of Zarahemla were, except for the narrow neck, surrounded by water (Alma 22:32). There was a sea to the west, and a sea to the east (Alma 22:33). There was also a sea to the south and a sea to the north (Helaman 3:8). These four seas surrounded the entire Land of Promise for Jacob claimed they lived on "an isle of the sea" - an island (2 Nephi 10:20)." (p. 340)

    This was a fatal mistake. You can't just cite the various "sea" scriptures AND out of context. For example, the seas in Helaman 3:8 are Land Northward SPECIFIC:

    8 And it came to pass that they did multiply and spread, and did go forth from the land southward to the LAND NORTHWARD, and did spread insomuch that they began to cover the face of the whole earth, from the SEA SOUTH to the SEA NORTH, from the SEA WEST to the SEA EAST. (Helaman 3)

    Though his attempt to justify his conclusion using 2 Nephi 10:20, that was an expression, albeit with relevance, just not how he imagined it:

    16 Yea, then will he remember the isles of the sea; yea, and all the people who are of the house of Israel, will I gather in, saith the Lord, according to the words of the prophet Zenos, from the four quarters of the earth. (1 Nephi 19)

    16 Yea, then will he remember the isles of the sea; yea, and all the people who are of the house of Israel, will I gather in, saith the Lord, according to the words of the prophet Zenos, from the four quarters of the earth. (1 Nephi 19)

    5 My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust. (Isaiah 51)

    8 And it shall come to pass that they shall be gathered in from their long dispersion, from the isles of the sea, and from the four parts of the earth; and the nations of the Gentiles shall be great in the eyes of me, saith God, in carrying them forth to the lands of their inheritance. (2 Nephi 10)

    7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth? (2 Nephi 29)

    We have no knowledge of what is south of Lehi's Land of First Inheritance. It would be more accurate to simply say "I don't know." and to keep the Sea South, south of the Land Northward as it says in Helaman 3:8.

    1. Why not sit down and sketch this out Roy. If you would take the time to do that you would see clearly that what they are describing is an Island that is shaped roughly like an hourglass. There is a South sea and and North sea, a sea east and west. Well by golly that's an Island! Then they describe a narrow neck of land that divides that land South from the land North. Works out pretty good. How does this work in North America? That model is complete nonsense.

    2. Roy, I agree that Helaman 3:8 is talking from the position of the land northward. And maybe the south end of the land southward was somewhat different than Del's model. But I do not agree that the great lakes are seas. The great lakes are fresh water lakes. Can you not see that you are trying to force a wrong interpretation of the word seas?

  6. Deconstructing Del DowDell - Part 6


    DowDell has not calculated land distances and his prescribed BOM area is exorbant extending the full length of S. America albeit just the west coast.


    The Andes are distinct. People in the BOM were all the time becoming lost because there were NO gigantic mountains that could be seen from all directions and used as DISTINCT LANDMARKS.


    There are no BEACHES or PLAINS where they are supposed to be. The land terrain does not match with "hills" and forests. Instead there are gigantic mountains, volcanoes, etc.


    Why is that all the source materials DowDell consulted, the one book that is of the precise same model as "his" own is never mentioned: "The Book and The Map" by Venice Priddis, Bookcraft, 1975"?


    "Since the hill [cerro Imbabura - their hill Cumorah] is considered sacred, the name given to certain sections of it may represent events which have taken place on its slopes. I note that, on a detailed map of the cerro Imbabura which I have in my possession, such names as Batallon (Battalion) Imbabura, Compania (Company) Imbabura, and Zapallo Loma (in Ecuadorian, sad person hill), are given to parts of the hill. It is a very interesting hill indeed. (p. 57)

  7. Roy, Interesting thoughts - they actually made me giggle. I can tell you are coming over from the NorthAmerican Model folks by the scritpures you interpreted. I've found Del's information quite informative. I'm sure Del can take your points one by one and thoroughly destroy each one. The thing that is interesting though is when I ask for clarification over in your site I get absolutely nothing. Very odd that you would come here and do this. Del must really be getting under your skin. Ira

  8. Roy, if you are interested in a response, one has been written covering each of your points and will appear in a week or two in this blog. We are looking for a place to insert in into the regular flow of articles already written.