More Comments from Readers – Part III

Comment #1: “Do we know how Moroni died or when? I have been unable to find out anything” Hardy T.
Response: According to Thomas B. Marsh, who was then the President of the Quorum of the Twelve, as told by a Brother Higginson at a meeting in Spanish Fork, in the winter of 1896, Marsh claimed that the Prophet Joseph Smith told him that he became very anxious to know something of the fate of Moroni, and in answer to prayer the Lord gave Joseph a vision.

Moroni in a wild country where he kept. hidden for a good length of time before being spotted by six Lamanites

In the vision, Joseph saw what appeared a wild country and on the scene was Moroni after whom were six Indians in pursuit; Moroni stopped and one of the Indians stepped forward and “measured swords with him.” Moroni smote him and he fell dead; another Indian advanced and contended with him; this Indian also fell by his sword; a third Indian then stepped forth and met the same fate; a fourth afterwards contended with him, but in the struggle with the fourth, Moroni, being exhausted, was killed. Thus ended the life of Moroni (Charles D. Evans, LDS Church Archives, as quoted in H. Donl Peterson, former professor at BYU of ancient scripture, three-time bishop, and a stake president, and  in Moroni: Ancient Prophet, Modern Messenger, Cedar Fort, 2008, p 77).
    As to when this death occurred, that is unknown other than it would have been sometime after 421 A.D., which was 35 or 36 years after the final battle at Cumorah. As an example, we do not know what happened to the 24 survivors (Mormon 6:11) of that first wave of battle, among whom was Mormon. It is thought that Mormon and the others, except for Moroni until years later, were among those that were tracked down by the Lamanites and killed that Moroni mentioned (Mormon 8:2), but again, we simply do not know.
     This is the only account we have ever run across, and since it was handed down through three or four people, and we take it only as a possibility. The author of the book died in 1994, and there is no way to verify where he got the story from or how authentic it is.
Comment #2: “I believe this country, and the Smith family, was prepared to be in the right place to find where the plates were buried. I don't know all the answers, but I believe the plates were found right where Mormon buried them” Carson J.
Response: Evidently, the plates Mormon hid up in the earth, i.e., those not handed over to his son, Moroni, have never been obtained. Mormon 6:6 tells us that Mormon made a complete abridgement of the Large Plates of Nephi (from Lehi through 4th Nephi) and gave them to his son, Moroni (see also Words of Mormon 1:1). He buried all the other plates (Brass Plates, Plates of Ether, and likely all the records kept by the Nephites (Helaman 3:13,15).
    He did not want these plates that had been passed down to him to be destroyed. No doubt Moroni was instructed the same thing by his father, Mormon.

Joseph Smith after reeceiving the plates from Moroni

We know that Joseph Smith received the plates that Mormon abridged, as part of those that Moroni “hid up in the ground” and Joseph retrieved them from the hill Cumorah in New York state; however, we do not know where Moroni buried them originally, or even if he did, since that has never been revealed. The plates Mormon buried are, no doubt, part of all those records that now rest in the repository seen in a vision by Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery and referred to in LDS literature as the Cumorah Cave. As for the burial of Moroni’s plates, he never told us where he was going to bury them, only “in the earth” (Mormon 8:4), and that could have been anytime between about 385 A.D. when he said he was going to finish his record and when he last wrote about 421 A.D. In those 36 years of wandering, staying out of sight of the warring Lamanites, etc., he might have traveled far and wide away from the Land of Promise. We simply do not know.
Comment #3: “I read where John Clark of BYU said, ‘The cultural worlds of ancient Mesoamerica and early New York are far enough apart that it ought to be simple to discover from which one the book came. The cultures described in the Book of Mormon fit much better in Mesoamerica than in New York for any century.’ I figured you might have an opinion and I'd appreciate knowing what it is” Kenneth W.
Response: Actually, there isn’t a whole lot to say about this. Clark believes in Mesoamerica, others believe in the Great Lakes or Heartland of the U.S. But it really doesn’t matter what people believe in, it only matters what the scriptural record says by those who sailed there, lived and fought and died there, who knew the land and its location better than any modern professor historian or scholar, and what they have written and the descriptions they left us are quite clear and not open to individual interpretation as no scripture is.

Nephi told us how he sailed by winds and currents being “driven forth before the wind.” There are no two ways to interpret this—winds and currents are very clear, have always been the same, and lead in only one direction for a ship “driven before the wind,” i.e., meaning it was pushed forward, not drawn forward through tacking, but pushed forward where the winds blew it. Follow that track and it takes you to where Lehi landed, where Nephi traveled and founded the City of Nephi and where the Nephite nation flourished for 1000 years.
Comment #3: “John Sorenson insists that the final battle of the Nephites took place near the narrow neck of land. Is that correct? I thought it took place in the Land Northward “so far northward” that it came into the Land of Many Waters where the Jaredites had been destroyed” Brighton C.

Red Circle: Sorenson’s Hill Cumorah; Green Arrow: Sorenson’s Narrow Neck of Land 

Response: You are right. Sorenson has placed his hill Cumorah close to his narrow neck of land, therefore he has to claim the battle took place near that narrow neck. In all reality, the scriptural record tells us that the Land of Many Waters, Rivers and Fountains was far to the north, which also contained the Land of Cumorah and the hill Cumorah. Sorenson has his hill almost on the east coast, but the scriptural record tells us it was located to the west of the city and land of Ablom, which was west of the coast or east sea.
Comment #4: “So what is your conclusion about Zelph? My conclusion is that the early brethren jumped to a bunch of conclusions creating a mass of confusion on the matter. Since we don't know what Joseph said on the subject I think the entire episode needs to be dismissed. Doesn't ring true since we know where the Lamanite and Nephites really lived. What is your conclusion?” Terry
Response: Our opinion, for whatever it is worth, is that, like any event in history as well as today, when you have several witnesses writing or speaking about an event all saw, you have vastly different responses or reports. Ask any policeman about the various ways a single event is described by several witnesses. As for the event itself, I believe it took place more or less as it was reported; however, each surrounded their writing of it based on their own views and opinions of the location and how they described it, i.e., from Cumorah to the Rocky Mountains; from the Sea East to the Rocky Mountains; from the sea to the Rocky Mountains; a White Lamanite; a Nephite; the last battle between the Nephites and Lamanites; the last battle; Joseph Smith was present when the bones were found; Joseph was not present; Joseph joined them later and discussed it; etc.

    As for knowing where the Nephites and Lamanites were, yes, the account recorded in the Book of Mormon on the plates took place in what we call the Land of Promise, which we reference to the western portion of South America; on the other hand Hagoth’s ships took numerous people to “a land which was northward,” which would have been into Central and Meso-America where similar ruins and cultures have been found--the only ones found anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. From there remnants would have traveled into Mexico, what is now the U.S. and possibly southern Canada. We are talking about a Nephite history of a thousand years, Hagoth’s immigrants for about 1500 years, and much or all of the Western Hemisphere could have been covered in that time since we see how in the scriptural record the Nephites in the small area of the recorded Land of promise kept spreading across the land from sea to sea (Helaman 3:8).

The Zelph Mound referred to as the Naples-Russell Mound #8, Pike County, Illinois 

  

The value of the Zelph story is to know that 1) the Nephites and Lamanites covered most or all of Central and North America as well as the area in which the Jaredites, Mulekites, and Lehites landed and where the Nephite Nation and Lamanite kingdom occupied; 2) it also verifies that the Land of Promise was a much larger area than just that written about in the scriptural record—the entire American continent, now called South America and North America. If we did not have the Zelph story, we could not verify that the Nephites, or at least the Lamanites, were in North America. It seems the Lord has given us all the information we need to make correct judgments as to where Lehi landed, where Nephi settled, and where the Land of Promise as written about was located. Modern day prophets have filled in the understanding that the entire Western Hemisphere is the Land of Promise and though Lehi settled in one small area of it, at a time an island, the Lord held the entire Western Hemisphere as the land to be promised to those who live the gospel and came through either the remnant that he led to the Americas in the beginning (Jaredites, Lehites, Mulekites, etc.) as well as the later Gentiles.
    The Lord does not hide what he does, but it is not always clear what is to man’s limited view the Plan of God. The more we study things out in our own mind, the more we can know and understand what some call the mysteries of God.