Here are some
additional comments or questions
sent in by readers of this website:
Comment #1: “Joseph Smith said that there are men living
on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since
he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to
Heaven? (The Young Woman's Journal, Vol. 3, pages 263-264. See reprint in
Mormonism --Shadow or Reality? by Jerald and Sandra Tanner, page 4.)”
Dieter V.
Response: It is
interesting that a statement made by one man, based upon another man’s
unpublished comment, some fifty-five years after hearing it, has become a
broad-based, and widely accepted matter. Oliver Boardman Huntington (far left),
claims as his source, Philo Dibble (left), both members of the early Church,
said that he recalled Joseph Smith saying that men lived on the moon, and described
their attire and longevity.
Huntington was quoted
in the Young Woman’s Journal, Vol 3, No 6, published in March 1892, under the
heading: “Our Sunday Chapter: Inhabitants of the Moon,” pp 263-64. While
critics claim this was a church publication, this volume was published five
years before the journal was adopted (1897) as the official magazine for the
Young Ladies Mutual Improvement Association.
In addition, Philo
Dibble’s narrative “Early Scenes in Church History,” in his autobiography
covering 1806-1843, and published by Bookcraft in 1968, pp 74-96, and ending
one year before Joseph’s death, makes no mention of anything about the moon or
quaker dress or Joseph’s alleged statement, other than listing waiting for the moonlight
that was needed for a baptism, yet at the same time includes several comments
regarding the prophet Joseph Smith. Hutington’s comment is taken from The History of Oliver B.
Huntington,
p. 10, typed copy, Marriott Library, University of Utah.
Though Huntington wrote of this, he used Philo Dibble as his
source. In other words, Huntington never heard Joseph Smith say this at all. Nor
do we have any testimony or writing from Philo Dibble that he heard Joseph say
this. The reference is an article in Sunstone, printed by Sunstone Education
Foundation, a magazine claiming to be a vehicle for free and frank exchange,
which tries to pass itself off as an arm, or at least an accepted publication
and organization of the LDS Church, and though it claims to bring together
traditional and non-traditional Latter-day Saints, its many articles are far
into the non-traditional LDS camp.
Critics also quote Daniel Arion Vogel, born 1955, the author
of a number of books relating to early Mormon history, and a former member of
the Church, but now an avowed atheist and a skeptic, who considers Joseph Smith
a pious fraud. His attitude has been likened to that of Korihor (left) by FARMS' author
Stephen E. Robinson. Vogel, in his writing about Joseph Smith, quotes
Huntington as his source about men living on the moon.
It all simply boils down to one man writing an article about
something claimed to have been said by Joseph Smith, using a source that he
claims to have heard say the statement, of which there is no record by the man.
It is always interesting that someone, anyone, would choose
to pass on and make issues out of such an unproven, and unprovable, statement,
attributed to a man as having said it 55 years before the first record of it
having been said. Such a remark is called unsubstantiated hearsay in court, and
as such would be thrown out of every court in the land as “hearsay evidence.”
Comment #2: “Distances in the Book of Mormon are given in terms
of days of travel. Moreover, many named cities are mentioned, sometimes with
their approximate directional relationship to others. When one looks at the
time stated to travel all the way from the southernmost part to the north, it
is only a matter of weeks (Mosiah 23:3, 20,25), which implies that the greatest
dimension of the entire area is only a few hundred miles”
Marcio.
Response: Mosiah 23:3 says they
were fleeing for 8 days. How fast were they moving? Mosiah 23:20, 25, have
nothing to do with distance, they talk about Alma and his group being in the
land of Helam where they built a city, and that a Lamanite army approaches them
in Helam while they are tilling their land. Hardly the fodder for a distance
evaluation. Nor can we use the overall 21 days (Mosiah 23:3; 24:20; 24:25) it
took to go from the Waters of Mormon (Mosiah 18:30) to the land of Zarahemla, since
no one can say how fast they traveled, over what kind of terrain, and how long
the distance was for the travel. And, other than the day and a half journey
across the narrow neck of land mentioned in Alma 22:32, there are no other
descriptions of distance. Certainly, no one can say with any confidence at all
how far anything was from anything else in terms of miles.
In addition, when it is said,
“When one looks at the time stated to travel all the way from the southernmost
part to the north,” they are assuming the Waters of Mormon were in the
southernmost part of the land, however, the waters of Mormon were outside the
city of Lehi-Nephi (Mormon 18:4-5), which was originally called the City of
Nephi, and that was "many days" travel to the north of where they first landed (2 Nephi 5:7). And while the Waters of Mormon were outside the City of
Nephi, we don’t know how far, or how long it took to travel from the city to
the waters. Nor, do we know where Alma’s 21-day journey ended, for it says
after 21 days they reached the land
of Zarahemla (Mosiah 24:25). For all we know, that may have been yet some
distance from the city of Zarahemla.
So all we know from
this 21-day journey, is that Alma traveled from the Waters of Mormon, which
exact spot is unknown, to the land of Zarahemla, at what spot in that land we
don’t know. Or, stated differently, Alma began from an unknown spot and
traveled to another unknown spot in 21 days. Now, how helpful is that in determining
distances of the Land of Promise? Finally, when it is said, “When
one looks at the time stated to travel all the way from the southernmost part
to the north,” where in the north are we talking about? Zarahemla, even the city of Zarahemla, is
some distance south of the Land of Bountiful, which is south of the narrow neck
of land, which is south of the Land of Desolation, which is south of Cumorah
and the Land of Many Waters, which is south of the Ripliancum sea, the
furthest point north in the Land of Promise mentioned.
Consequently, it might be said
that the distance from the City of Nephi to the City of Zarahemla covers only a
small portion of the Land of Promise. If that distance is only “a few hundred
miles,” then how far is it from the first landing to the Ripliancum sea?
Comment #3: “Lehi blessed Sam that his seed would inherit the land like unto
Nephi’s and his seed would be numbered with Nephi’s. While, in the Book of
Mormon, Sam’s name gets lost as a branch of the people, in the indigenous
literature it does not appear to have been lost. Rather, it is Nephi’s tribe
that looses its unique identity” Hayden
Response: It is not that Nephi’s
descendants lost their uniqueness, but were expanded to encompass much more
than just their own tribe, somewhat like everyone in Jerusalem, etc., now are
called Jews even though their actual tribe might be different, but especially
Dan who was absorbed into Judah. Lehi’s actual blessing was to grant to Sam all
the blessings conferred upon Nephi—none of his other sons were given such a
privilege. Obviously, Sam was a very obedient and righteous individual, but
evidently one who preferred living in the background and supporting Nephi to
the end (like Joseph Smith’s brother, Hyrum).
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn response to comment #1.. I would like to add that if one were to do a search on google for moon hoax of 1835.. you would see that there was published in a New York newspaper, 6 articles written about a new discovery!!! Life on the moon! The articles described fantastic animals on the Moon, including bison, goats, unicorns, bipedal tail-less beavers and bat-like winged humanoids ("Vespertilio-homo") who built temples. There were trees, oceans and beaches. These discoveries were supposedly made with "an immense telescope of an entirely new principle."
ReplyDeletePeople believed this and don't think that the Saints were immune to newspaper stories. A prophet is only a prophet when he is acting like one. Which means.. when God is giving you revelation.. you are a prophet. When he gives you NO revelation about a particular topic.. then you are on your own and anything you have to say is of whatever you believe at the time and of your own opinion. There has been no verification from God. And we all know how silent God can be about trivial things as life being discovered on the moon.
If Joseph did say anything about it.. and I use the word IF.. it was probably due to these articles. He could have been relaying what he knew had been written.. or been guessing what he would think they would be like. Either way.. the critics of the Church have a false notion that every word that falls from the mouth of the Prophet is revelation from God. This just is not true folks.
No doubt these articles may well have inspired the 37-year-old French author, Jules Vern's 1865 novel "De la terre a la lune," ["From the Earth to the Moon"] in his Voyages Extraordinaries, this being the fourth in that series, which was published in the U.S. in 1867. A concept, voyaging to the moon, by the way, that swept around the world at the time. While there is no evidence Joseph ever said any such thing regarding people on the moon, such stories did spark the imagination of many, many people in the mid-1800s.
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