Wednesday, October 7, 2015

More Comments from Readers – Part I

Here are more comments that we have received from readers of this website blog:    
    Comment #1: “The Lord warned that the Gentiles in our day would pollute the Holy church of God (Mormon 8:38; 3 Nephi 16:7-13), and my conviction is that this pollution includes the rejection of a prophet foreordained by the Lord. If the leadership of the Lord's Gentile church in their great pride would not have rejected the foreordained prophet and cast him out, then the promises of true continuing revelation for the church would have resumed. When the Lord finally begins His work of cleansing His church and preparing it for His ancient covenant people's sake-- then the Word of the Lord will again be given to the church membership”  E. Richard
Response: This information is not directed to the Church itself, or the present Church of righteous members, but is addressed to: “O ye wicked and perverse and stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain? Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled” (Mormon 8:33).
    That is, Mormon/Moroni is addressing their remarks to a future unrighteous people who begin creating their own churches who will say, “Come unto me, and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins” (Mormon 8:32), and this will occur in a day when there will be “great pollutions upon the face of the earth; there shall be murders, and robbing, and lying, and deceivings, and whoredoms, and all manner of abominations; when there shall be many who will say, Do this, or do that, and it mattereth not, for the Lord will uphold such at the last day” (Mormon 8:31)—in other words, in our day today.
    It is important when reading scripture to know to whom the prophet is speaking, and in this case, it is to all those who will (in Moroni’s day) and have (in our day) built up numerous sectarian churches and that “walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts” (Mormon 8:36). In addition, these various churches are described further, “For behold, ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted” (Mormon 8:37), hardly describe the LDS Church in any way as you suggest.
     When it is mentioned that this future people have “polluted the holy church of God” (Mormon 8:38), the reference is that the people have created churches, but they are not like the holy church of God, but give claim that they are. It is hardly descriptive of the LDS Church that “Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not? Yea, why do ye build up your secret abominations to get gain, and cause that widows should mourn before the Lord, and also orphans to mourn before the Lord, and also the blood of their fathers and their husbands to cry unto the Lord from the ground, for vengeance upon your heads?”
    And as far as the 3 Nephi quote, the disciple was speaking of not future church members, but of the “unbelieving Gentiles” who are not members of the Church when he said, “But wo, saith the Father, unto the unbelieving of the Gentiles -- for notwithstanding they have come forth upon the face of this land, and have scattered my people who are of the house of Israel; and my people who are of the house of Israel have been cast out from among them, and have been trodden under feet by them” (3 Nephi 16:8), he is referring to the non-believers among the Gentiles when he adds, “And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them” (3 Nephi 16:10).
Obviously, this references the government of the United States and all those politicians who are working against gospel principles in the government and demanding that society accept them, “working their abominations” on the people with “all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy.”
    Comment #2: “In an article you wrote about Zeniff returning to the land of Nephi to acquire the Cities of Nephi and Shilom, you said about the seed of corn, “It is also interesting that for the first time, the crop “corn” is mentioned since evidently, this was not a seed brought from Jerusalem, but a crop the Nephites somehow acquired while in Zarahemla, either as a singular domestication of their own, or more likely a domestication of the Mulekites in their 350-375 year occupation of Zarahemla or one that somehow came to them via the Jaredites, such as contained in Coriantumr’s bag where he had a cob he had been eating, or a seed to be planted—after all, he had to have been living somehow between his battle with Shiz around the hill Shim in the land of Antum (Nephite hill Cumorah) and when he wandered into the Mulekite camp or city (Zarahemla).” What makes you think that Coriantumr wandered into Zarahemla? He was in the land northward” Carlo G.
    Response: Amaleki says the Mulekites came into the land (landed) where Mosiah found them, which would have been in the area of Zarahemla, and dwelt there from that time onward (Omni 1:16). Where else would Coriantumr have encountered them? Besides, the last Jaredite wrote out his history on a large stone—probably sufficient in size to have been difficult to carry around, yet it was in Zarahemla when Mosiah arrived and interpreted it (Omni 1:20-21).
Coriantumr’s stone as depicted by an artist, of which Mosiah is interpreting and someone is writing down the interpretation, perhaps Amaleki
    Granted, the above is merely an artist’s view, however, for Coriantumr to have written out his history, he would have needed something of some size and this depiction seems to be about right.
    Comment #3: ”It is amazing that no one in the New Testament period used the Urim and Thummim, there was no need for it, neither do we find any historical reason that it existed then
Response: Biblically, the term "Urim and Thummim” is mentioned seven times in the Old Testament (Exodus 28:30; Leviticus 8:8; Ezra 2:63; Nehemiah 7:65; Deuteronomy 33:8; Numbers 27:21; 1 Samuel 28:6 — in the latter two passages "Urim" is used by itself). In these passages the Urim and Thummim are presented as a means of divine revelation, and are frequently associated with the garments of the High Priest, the ephod and breastplate. The Bible gives no description of the object(s) that constituted the Urim and Thummim, nor of the manner of their use; however, Jewish experts have spoken on the subject, and several drawings have been made to suggest what it might have looked like. As for its use, there seems no question its purpose was regarding translation and obtaining knowledge, especially through inquiring of God (the Lord) for answers. Seven times in the Old Testament and seven times in the New Testament, casting lots is mentioned, though nothing is known about the actual lots themselves. Modern scholars say it is like flipping a coin, though that might be questionable. The practice was used to determine God’s will for a given situation (Joshua 18:6-10; 1 Chronicles 24:5, 31). Various offices and functions in the temple were also determined by lot (1 Chronicles 24:5, 31; 25:8-9; 26:13-14). And the eleven cast lots to determine who would replace Judas (Acts 1:26), but only after questioning the two candidates, and praying earnestly for an answer. Evidently, "casting lots" meant inquiring of the Lord through prayer to determine an answer between two or more options, and expecting the Lord to respond through the process of the "casting of lots."


  1. For what it is worth, here is a method of casting lots that I felt somewhat inspired to develop: This method can be somewhat tedious, so it is not for everyone.

  2. Interesting. As good a method, especially the earlier, more simple part, as any casting I've read about.

  3. Surely the casting of lots is the way they voted for their choice.