Here are more comments that we have received from readers of
this website blog:
Comment #1: “The Lord
warned that the Gentiles in our day would pollute the Holy church of God
(Mormon 8:38; 3 Nephi 16:7-13), and my conviction is that this pollution
includes the rejection of a prophet foreordained by the Lord. If the leadership
of the Lord's Gentile church in their great pride would not have rejected the
foreordained prophet and cast him out, then the promises of true continuing
revelation for the church would have resumed. When the Lord finally begins His
work of cleansing His church and preparing it for His ancient covenant people's
sake-- then the Word of the Lord will again be given to the church
membership” E. Richard
Response: This
information is not directed to the Church itself, or the present Church of
righteous members, but is addressed to: “O ye wicked and perverse and
stiffnecked people, why have ye built up churches unto yourselves to get gain?
Why have ye transfigured the holy word of God, that ye might bring damnation
upon your souls? Behold, look ye unto the revelations of God; for behold, the
time cometh at that day when all these things must be fulfilled” (Mormon 8:33).
That is, Mormon/Moroni
is addressing their remarks to a future unrighteous people who begin creating
their own churches who will say, “Come unto me, and for your money you shall be
forgiven of your sins” (Mormon 8:32), and this will occur in a day when there
will be “great pollutions upon the face of the earth; there shall be murders,
and robbing, and lying, and deceivings, and whoredoms, and all manner of
abominations; when there shall be many who will say, Do this, or do that, and
it mattereth not, for the Lord will uphold such at the last day” (Mormon
8:31)—in other words, in our day today.
It is important when
reading scripture to know to whom the prophet is speaking, and in this case, it
is to all those who will (in Moroni’s day) and have (in our day) built up numerous
sectarian churches and that “walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are
none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their
hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and
malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted
because of the pride of your hearts” (Mormon 8:36). In addition, these various
churches are described further, “For behold, ye do love money, and your
substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than
ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted” (Mormon 8:37),
hardly describe the LDS Church in any way as you suggest.
When
it is mentioned that this future people have “polluted the holy church of God”
(Mormon 8:38), the reference is that the people have created churches, but they
are not like the holy church of God, but give claim that they are. It is hardly
descriptive of the LDS Church that “Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life,
and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the
afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not? Yea, why do ye build up your
secret abominations to get gain, and cause that widows should mourn before the
Lord, and also orphans to mourn before the Lord, and also the blood of their
fathers and their husbands to cry unto the Lord from the ground, for vengeance
upon your heads?”
And as far as the 3 Nephi quote,
the disciple was speaking of not future church members, but of the “unbelieving
Gentiles” who are not members of the Church when he said, “But
wo, saith the Father, unto the unbelieving of the Gentiles -- for
notwithstanding they have come forth upon the face of this land, and have
scattered my people who are of the house of Israel; and my people who are of
the house of Israel have been cast out from among them, and have been trodden
under feet by them” (3 Nephi 16:8), he is referring to the non-believers among
the Gentiles when he adds, “And thus commandeth the Father that I should say
unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall
reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their
hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and
shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs,
and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and
of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject
the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of
my gospel from among them” (3 Nephi 16:10).
Obviously,
this references the government of the United States and all those politicians
who are working against gospel principles in the government and demanding that
society accept them, “working their abominations” on the people with “all
manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of
hypocrisy.”
Comment
#2: “In an article you wrote about Zeniff returning to the land of Nephi to
acquire the Cities of Nephi and Shilom, you said about the seed of corn, “It is
also interesting that for the first time, the crop “corn” is mentioned since
evidently, this was not a seed brought from Jerusalem, but a crop the Nephites
somehow acquired while in Zarahemla, either as a singular domestication of
their own, or more likely a domestication of the Mulekites in their 350-375
year occupation of Zarahemla or one that somehow came to them via the
Jaredites, such as contained in Coriantumr’s bag where he had a cob he had been
eating, or a seed to be planted—after all, he had to have been living somehow
between his battle with Shiz around the hill Shim in the land of Antum (Nephite
hill Cumorah) and when he wandered into the Mulekite camp or city (Zarahemla).”
What makes you think that Coriantumr wandered into Zarahemla? He was in the
land northward” Carlo G.
Response:
Amaleki says the Mulekites came into the land (landed) where Mosiah found them,
which would have been in the area of Zarahemla, and dwelt there from that time
onward (Omni 1:16). Where else would Coriantumr have encountered them? Besides,
the last Jaredite wrote out his history on a large stone—probably sufficient in
size to have been difficult to carry around, yet it was in Zarahemla when
Mosiah arrived and interpreted it (Omni 1:20-21).
Coriantumr’s stone as depicted by an
artist, of which Mosiah is interpreting and someone is writing down the
interpretation, perhaps Amaleki
Granted,
the above is merely an artist’s view, however, for Coriantumr to have written out
his history, he would have needed something of some size and this depiction
seems to be about right.
Comment #3: ”It is amazing that no one
in the New Testament period used the Urim and Thummim, there was no need for
it, neither do we find any historical reason that it existed then”
Response:
Biblically, the term "Urim and Thummim” is mentioned seven times in the
Old Testament (Exodus 28:30; Leviticus 8:8; Ezra 2:63; Nehemiah 7:65;
Deuteronomy 33:8; Numbers 27:21; 1 Samuel 28:6 — in the latter two passages
"Urim" is used by itself). In these passages the Urim and Thummim are
presented as a means of divine revelation, and are frequently associated with
the garments of the High Priest, the ephod and breastplate. The Bible gives no
description of the object(s) that constituted the Urim and Thummim, nor of the
manner of their use; however, Jewish experts have spoken on the subject, and
several drawings have been made to suggest what it might have looked like. As
for its use, there seems no question its purpose was regarding translation and
obtaining knowledge, especially through inquiring of God (the Lord) for
answers. Seven times in the Old Testament and seven times in the New
Testament, casting lots is mentioned, though nothing is known about the actual
lots themselves. Modern scholars say it is like flipping a coin, though that
might be questionable. The practice was used to determine God’s will for a
given situation (Joshua 18:6-10; 1 Chronicles 24:5, 31). Various offices and
functions in the temple were also determined by lot (1 Chronicles 24:5, 31; 25:8-9; 26:13-14).
And the eleven cast lots to determine who would replace Judas (Acts 1:26), but
only after questioning the two candidates, and praying earnestly for an answer. Evidently, "casting lots" meant inquiring of the Lord through prayer to determine an answer between two or more options, and expecting the Lord to respond through the process of the "casting of lots."
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For what it is worth, here is a method of casting lots that I felt somewhat inspired to develop: http://2bc.info/lots/methods.pdf This method can be somewhat tedious, so it is not for everyone.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. As good a method, especially the earlier, more simple part, as any casting I've read about.
ReplyDeleteSurely the casting of lots is the way they voted for their choice.
ReplyDelete