Sunday, January 8, 2017

More Comments From Readers – Part VI

Here are more comments from the readers of our blog: 
    Comment: #1: “Why do you think there is so much resistance to your South American theory of it being the land of promise?”  Jenkins A.
    Response:  I think it was Hugh Nibley who stated that “nothing is harder than to convince a man of a thing he has not experienced,” and this is pointed out in “Either did prophesy great and marvelous things unto the people, which they did not believe, because they saw them not” (Ether 12:5). It seems true that those without faith live in a world of their own making, which to them seems logical and final—they take the very unscientific stand that beyond the realm of their own very limited experience nothing whatever exists or is possible.
To embrace the South American Andean area as the Land of the Nephites, is to follow the scriptural record from beginning to end in how Nephi says they got to that land and what they found there, then accept Jacob’s comment they were on an island, then follow Nephi’s march northward and read carefully every description given by Mormon and Moroni of the Land of Promise. In doing that, there simply is no other place that matches all of the scriptural references given, than Andean South America as it appeared ancient.
    The problem most people have is that they look at South America as it is today, a very large continent and dismiss it out of hand for it is far too large to be the Land of Promise—which, of course, in its present configuration, it is.
    However, once they study and learn of the condition of that continent in the past, understand 3 Nephi 8,9, and see how every descriptive scripture is found in Andean South America, and most nowhere else in the Western Hemisphere, then they are on the right track. Still, rejecting what “everyone knows” is hard for most people who rarely think outside the box. They tend to feel on safer ground if it is ground everyone else is on--hence, the great following of Mesoamerica though it has so few points that agree with the scriptural record.
    Comment #2: “The story of poisonous serpents “hedging up the way” sounds a little suspicious to me, like over-emphasizing an unimportant detail of the famine” Tex S.
    Response: There’s the old saying that the Lord works in mysterious ways. This one, however is not so mysterious. The Lord has always planned ahead when it comes to things of the world, and one of those plans was in providing animals in a New World after the Flood where man had never been. Hence, he had the Jaredites, farmers, and herdsmen in Mesopotamia, bringing animals of all kinds to the Land of Promise. When he brought Lehi, for some reason, he did not choose to have Lehi bringing animals with him—only seeds of all kinds, obviously, since he knew the animals were already there.
The poisonous serpents drove the stampeding animals southward toward the narrow neck and through into the Land Southward

    Consequently, when the famine struck the Jaredites, it caused the serpents, or snakes, to react a certain way and that was to drive animals out of the Land Northward into the Land Southward, and then “hedge up the way so the animals would not come back, nor allow any more animals or people into the Land Southward. Eventually, those animals chased into the Land Southward migrated throughout the land until they reached the far south, where Lehi would eventually land. When enough animals for this purpose were driven through the narrow neck, no more were allowed southward. Thus, the Jaredites, who normally would not have allowed their flocks to wander off and would have rounded them up under normal herding circumstances were faced with a stampede of sorts that, connected with the serpents, fulfilled the Lord’s plan to place animals into the Land Southward for both the Nephites and, no doubt, the Mulekites.
    Comment #3: “I find the incident of Limhi’s people not finding Zarahemla and continuing on for hundreds of miles rather odd. Surely, there must have been some suggestion from somebody where Zarahemla would have been since these people’s grandparents probably left Zarahemla years earlier” Cameron W.
    Response: If you eliminate roads, maps, compasses, GPS, signs, and known or identifiable landmarks, etc., from the equation, you would find it very difficult to find a place you had never been in a land you had never seen, with nothing more than a vague understanding of where the place was located. When you include canyons without bridges, wide rivers without fords, mountains without passes, etc., travel becomes far more difficult and you are forced along routes you might not otherwise follow.
Consider walking through a mountain pass several miles long with mountains on both sides and visibility limited to your immediate vicinity—you would not know what you have passed by, could have been a river, a canyon, even a city, without knowing it or an entire ocean.
    Comment #4: “You wrote long long ago that the city of Pachacama, that is Zaarahemla, was more than one complex, but that the city was built on all sides, or all around the area we see today, including the area of Lima and the other settlements in between. Where do you get that from?” Jedd M.
    Response: About the time the sons of Mosiah “were numbered among the unbelievers,” there was peace in all the land of Zarahemla “and the people began to be very numerous, and began to scatter abroad upon the face of the earth, yea, on the north and on the south, on the east and on the west, building large cities and villages in all quarters of the land” (Mosiah 27:6). This was the Land of Zarahemla, and about the city itself, or on the outlying areas or outskirts of the city, the Nephites built new settlements, villages and large cities. The temple in Zarahemla was on a hill, for the people “had to go up to the temple” (Mosiah 2:5), as it is in Pachacamac. There were so many that came to hear king Benjamin speak he could not teach them all within the walls of the temple, so he caused a tower to be erected (obviously higher than the temple walls) that his people might hear his words (Mosiah 2:6-7). The temple at Pachacamac, its ruins at the base of the Sun Temple today, called the Temple of God (or Pachacamac) measures 400-feet in length and 180-feet in width, and the area within the temple walls measures approximately 2.5 miles by 1.5 miles, or 2,420 acres. Obviously, the city had and was expanding to cover the areas to the north, east, south and west.
    Comment #5: “I am a horticulturist, and for whatever it’s worth, in reading Jacob 5 and the allegory of the Olive Tree, it appears to me that one would have to have been very knowledgeable of the olive reproductive process. As a simple example, the Lord of the vineyard continually threatens to burn the vineyard, because olive trees will usually grow back after being burned, producing suckers from the old roots, which is generally more time-effective than trying to start a completely new crop of trees from scratch. It seems unlikely to me that Joseph Smith would have been that familiar with olive horticulture” Gerard “Gerry” C.
Response: Exactly. Olives, by the way are strictly a Mediterranean Climate tree and do not do well in cold temps, especially where temp falls below 57ºF. They simply do not do well in New England, the area of Joseph’s upbringing, and there would have been none on the farms his father and grandfathers owned. Where, then, did he get his knowledge if not from the plates? It might also be noted that when the Spanish moved into the colder regions of New Mexico, they had planned to have olive trees on every land parcel; however, they did not survive in the climate.
    Comment #6: “Brandon, let me explain something to you about time. I'm a geologist that accepts the fact that the earth is young. I studied at Utah State University and received my degree there and have worked as a geologist for over 35 years. There are two camps and the one you are talking about is the secular, humanists who reject the bible and other scriptures. These people reject Noah's flood of Genesis 6 as well. BYU accepts this however and the reason they do is because graduates would not be able to get a job if they do not accept this dogma. To be short however, Del's site will give you good information about the true time scale that coincides with the scriptures. The Evang. Christians have done an outstanding job of correcting the record as well. Go to the Insitute for Creation research = for very good articles on the creation and Noah's flood. They reject the 4.55 billion year earth and have done excellent research that refutes it. I can give you scriptures as well from the book of Moses that tell you that Adam was the 1st flesh and the 1st man created on the earth. The 6-day creation in Genesis and PofGP is a spiritual creation not the physical. But you can research that out yourself. Just go get educated on this subject and don't believe all the stuff you get in school because it's simply wrong and it will contradict the scriptures.” Ira T.


  1. "The 6-day creation in Genesis and PofGP is a spiritual creation not the physical."

    Which implies that Adam being the first man and first flesh was in the spiritual creation.

    When one reads the long life spans of the patriarchs down to Noah, the question arises: were ALL the people of that age also living such long lives? I do not believe the fossil record would support such an idea.

    I have faith that when Adam came about 6000 years ago, the pure blacks and probably other heathens were already here. And they did not have long life spans.

    The scriptures do not deal with these heathen, because the scriptures are for the seed of Adam and the mixture of the seed of Adam and these heathen.

    I do agree that further revelation is needed. So I await the fulfillment of the promises for all things to be revealed in the last days.

  2. Few things to ponder erichard

    Yes the 6 day creation is the spiritual. Adam was the first flesh on earth meaning he was the first flesh of all the animals. The making of Adam was the physical creation. All animals came later.

    If you look closely at the long life spans you notice something quite interesting. Enoch said he was a lad at 60 years old. The normal age for having children was over 100 years old. Now take 900 years and divide it by 9 and you get 100 years old. In other words the life span was just as long as ours. Only before the flood the earth rotation was likely much faster and so they counted the years differently. 2 of our months = approximately 1 year back then. After the flood the earth slowed down. it continued to slow and during the Roman times 2 months had to be added to the calendar - August= for Augustus Ceasar and July = Julius Ceasar. Before that the year was 10 months long hence December=10.

    The fossils were all created at the time of Noah's flood at 2348bc.

    The issue of the blacks can be found in the scriptures in Genesis, Moses 7 and Abraham 1. No mystery there at all - its all in the scriptures.