Thursday, March 2, 2017

The Creator God and the Son

It is interesting that everywhere you go, almost every archaeologist and every anthropologist claims that ancient cultures worshipped the “sun,” meaning the orb in the sky. It is even more interesting that not one has ever drawn a parallel between the “Sun,” and the “Son,” in religious worship, meaning the Son of God. Take Peru, for example. Whether or not you use Pachacamac, or Viracocha, both were the names of the Creator God, the former of the pre-Inca Peruvians along the coast and throughout much of Peru, and the latter the name used by the Inca. But it is important to understand that both names applied to the God of Creation! In fact, the Creator God was a very old and fundamental deity in Peru, and according to Philip Ainsworth Means, American anthropologist and historian, long time Peruvian archaeologist and resident, and the author of the renowned Ancient Civilizations of the Andes, the Creator God was the God worshipped at Tiahuanao under some other Quechua name, and that he resembles the Mexican god Quetzalcoatl (Ancient Civilizations of the Andes, Guardian Press New York, 1964). 
Art work symbolizing the ancient God of Creation in the Peruvian world of Andean, South America. He was known by various names, but all cultures acknowledged Him as the Creator of all thing, who had a son, a God of the people, who interacted with mankind

    Another note of interest is that in the cults that honored the dead, in Peru there was an understanding that the dead were “in Heaven with the Sun (Son?),” where the good enjoyed life much as on earth with a plethora of food and drink, while evil-doers went to a subterranean hell where it was always cold. 
    It is important to know that names come and go, change, or are altered, passing through different languages, but their meaning generally remains the same. Take the name Iōannēs in Greek, which is Ioannes and Iohannes in Latin, or Yohanan in Hebrew, Johannes in Rome, and John in English. It is Juan in Spanish, João in Portuguese, Johan in Dutch, Jens in Scandinatian, Jannis in German, Hans in Danish, Jehan in French, Leuan in Welsh, Eoin or Seán in Irish, Ewan or Owen in Celtic, Jan in Devon, János, in Hungary, Ivan in Russian, Xhoni in Albanian, Yann in Breton, Yuēhàn in Chinese, Keoni in Hawaiian, Giovanni in Italian, Yohane in Japanese, Jonas in Lithuanian, Loane in Samoan, Jock in Scotland, and Sione in Tongan.
    While names change, for some reason no linguist has suggested that “the Son” became “the Sun” in ancient worship, turning erroneous attention to worshipping the sun by ancient cultures that originally worshipped “the Son.”
Sun Stone from the original Nauvoo Temple. To early Church members, the sun breaking through clouds symbolized the dawning of the Restoration and the coming of gospel light to illuminate a dark earth
    In fact, all the ancient legends of the Andes are haunted by a male character shrouded in mystery. He is distinguished from the Andeans by his tall size, his beard and his light skin. Known by many different names throughout the Cordilleras, it is always the same recognizable character. To the ancient Peruvian cultures which long pre-dated the Inca, he was Pacha Kamaq, known today as Pachacamac, the Earth-Maker, Creator God, and also known as the “Lord of the Earth,” and “God of the Earth.” He was the Creator of Mankind, and of all things,” and the “Supreme Being of all things,” and the most important God of all ancient Peruvians, and creator of the first man and woman. 
    Like almost all things pre-Inca, little is known of that period and of Pachacamac, other than he was the God of Gods, and pilgrimages were undertaken to the city of his name in the Lurin Valley, for many centuries before the Inca conquest. When the Inca came, they were informed that the altars to Pachacamac in the city of that name had been there since the arrival of the first Peruvians, and so great was the veneration of this God and place by the local cultures that the Inca, instead of attempting to abolish His worship, found it more prudent to allow it to continue, conjointly with that of their own supreme deity, Viracocha.
To the Inca, he was Apu Qun Tiqsi Wiraqutra, commonly known today as Con-Tici (Tiki) Viracocha or simply Viracocha, the master of science and magic and all things—the Inca claimed Viracocha created the human race, and all things on the earth, as well as the Earth, the sky and the stars and is considered the Creator God, the God of Creation, and the Supreme God, i.e., “the Great God without beginning or end,” who rules in heaven, and considered to have human form. In Inca mythology, Viracocha saved two people to bring civilization to the rest of the world.
    It might be of interest to note that the chronicler Garcilaso de la Vega identified Viracocha as Pachacamac, and that he was not only eternal, but the creator of all other gods. According to Spanish accounts, Viracocha was pale or white-skinned and bearded, unusual features among the Inca. The famous carved figure on the decorated archway in the ancient (pre-Incan) city of Tiahuanaco, known as the "Gateway of the Sun," represents Viracocha. The central figure is flanked by 48 winged effigies, 32 with human faces and 16 with condor's heads. This huge monument is hewn from a single block of stone, and some believe that it might represent a calendar; if true, this would be the oldest known calendar in the world.
As for “the Son,” the ancient Peruvian Inti was the son of Viracocha and called the “Sun God,” had human form, and taught the first man and woman the art of civilization. In fact, while he is of unknown mythological origin, according to William Fash and Mary E. Lyons, Inti was the son of Viracocha, the God of civilization (The Ancient American World—The World in Ancient Times, Oxford University Press, New York, 2005). In fact, Inti, as the Son, represented by the “Sun,” is shown prominently on all three national flags of Argentina (1818), Peru (1822), and Uruguay (1828). As a note of interest, Inti is the God that told in the old Peruvian legend Manco Capac (Nephi?) to build in Cuzco where the golden wedge or staff he carried sank into the ground—that is to say, it was Inti in legend who guided the youngest of the four brothers where to settle after escaping from his older brothers.
Christ has always been associated with the Sun and the sun’s rays in radiance, in glory, and in hope—that has always transcended into art in a very noticeable manner

    Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high” (Hebrews 1:3).
    Where religious people make this transistion between reality and imagery within the gospel, it is generally lost on the non-religious, or on people of the sciences like archaeologists and anthropologists.
    As an example, anthropologist and linguist J. Alden Mason, of the University of Pennsylvania, in his very detailed depiction of life in pre-Columbian Peru states that ”The emperor, the royal family, and the High Priest confessed in secret to the Sun whose intercession they asked with Vircocha, the Creator” (The Ancient Civilization of Peru, Pelican, London, 1957, pp215-216). This is little different than one might say today, he confessed to Christ, whose intercession he asked with the Father.
    Thus, the Temple of the Sun at Pachacamac, is very likely the Temple of the Son, where not only Inti was worshipped, but originally in ancient Peru, when Pachacamac was built, it was dedicated to the Lord, who we call Jesus Christ.

31 comments:

  1. I was in southern Burma last year and met with an indigenous religious group called the Lehkai. The Sun/Son symbology in this group is prominent and they state clearly that Sun=Son, and that the Son once visited them and will one day return.

    https://cloudup.com/c7hxHQw_o2w

    This is the same group known to have metal plates made of brass (and some of gold) that are believed to be parts of an ancient book given to them by the Supreme Being.

    https://cloudup.com/cFlPaIfRr32

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    1. Ira, where's your anti-Malay diatribe already?

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    2. Well, it's such a rediculous theory that anybody with any knowledge of where the land of promise is really ought to know better. So why bother. Who bout you wb, is this one plausable?

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    3. I'm trying to find a way to post with my name but every option I choose shows up Unknown. Anybody know how to fix that?

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  3. While in English the Son/Sun homonym pair makes a very obvious connection; how many other languages have similar sounding words for those two things?

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  4. Del
    1) The land between the Nephites and east sea is to expansive the Nephites built several cities on the east sea nor do you show the Nephites occupying land along the east sea.
    2) The land desolation is by the east sea in your map it’s not. (Alma 50)
    3) The narrow pass is by the east sea your narrow pass is hundreds of miles away from the east sea (Alma 50:34)
    4) There are Lamanites on west side of Zarahemla who live in tents where are they and what civilization on the Chilean coast would they be and did they ever live in tents. Your map does not place the lamanites.
    5) Your narrow neck is not much of a neck when you consider that there are 100s of miles on the east side of it. It should only take a day and a half to travel from the west sea to the east. With your map its impossible to do that. Its suppose to be close to the east sea its not.
    6) Your land of Zarahemla has a lot of mountains. There are no verses in the Book of Mormon that states that Zarahemla had mountains. The only people that we know of that lived-in mountains were robbers. Your answer to this is not helpful
    7) All the open land east of Zarahemla bountiful and desolation does not make sense was this land occupied by Lamanites and Nephites?
    8) What is the animal that came from the Land Northward for food.
    9) On your map why would Hagoth need to travel all the way to bountiful when the pacific ocean on the west side. That bay would not be much of an advantage.
    10) Where is your sea south and your sea north
    11) The Nephites shipped timber from the land southward to the land northward how would they do this with your map.
    12) Im curious as where you would place the city of Moroni. Its by the east sea
    13) The Book of Mormon mentions several plains where would you find these plains in a mountain range.
    You did not answer these questions

    1) Migrating beast any evidence of migrating beast in South America (Alma 22:31)
    2) Head-plates no evidence of Head-plates in South America during BOM timeline (Alma 43:38)
    4) The Nephite building structure is wood. When timber was low they used cement in the Land Northward. Any South American tribes that used timber for the houses buildings and temples. Note that the Book of Mormon never states that the Nephites or Lamanites built there building from stone. (Helaman 3:7)
    5) Shipping the Nephites shipped timber to the land northward because of the lack of timber how do you suggest this was done in South America. Specifics like which river would be helpful. (Helaman 3:10)
    6) Earthen mound wall around ALL their cities. Do you have evidence that the indigenous people of South America used earthen mounds around all their cities? (Alma 50:1)
    7) Timber stockades and evidence the indigenous people of south America during the time of the Book of Mormon or any time for that matter used timber stockades around all their cities. (Alma 50:2)

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  5. Del
    Alma chapter 50 is very problematic for you several Nephite cities were built along the East Sea. The Narrow pass is between the east sea and the west sea. Your east sea is hundreds of miles away if not thousands.

    Alma 50
    34 And it came to pass that they did not head them until they had come to the borders of the land Desolation; and there they did head them, by the narrow pass which led by the sea into the land northward, yea, by the sea, on the west and on the east.

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  6. You should extend the east sea shoreline to your Narrow neck.With your map anything is possible.

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  7. David; the red line down his map is his estimation of where the east coast of the land of promise was prior to when the mountains were raised. As suggested previously, please actually read his posts (and optimally, his books) prior to spewing your walls of mostly incoherent babbling. You have apparently exercised great patience and restraint for the last week or two, waiting for Del to finish his responses before starting up with more questions. Exercise that once more and put some effort into researching what Del's theories actually are before arguing against them. And when he gives an answer, simply repeating your previous statement/question is just immature and annoying. You have previously asked Del to simplify his answers. Please do everyone else here the courtesy of doing the same. Perhaps instead of multiple lengthy posts after each of Del's articles, you could simply link to an article or articles stating your position on your site, with a short summary within the comment. This would allow you to format your material, include more material, allow you to include any graphics you want, and it would generate material for your site.

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  10. His map is very confusing he should extend his shoreline so it doesn't show rivers and land. Also he has the Andes mountains separating nephites on the east and west. Same would be for East and west lamanites between the Andes mountains. Didn't del say the Andes mountains were impassible

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  11. I am looking at the map from 2/26/17. Are you referring to the same one? All notations have arrows that point to locations to the west of the red line (which would be his east coast). I'm not sure where you see the Andes dividing population groups.

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  13. According to del not the Book of Mormon Lehi landed in the west side of the Andes mountains. But the nephites built cities on the East Sea shoreline. For nephites to travel from the west coast to the east coast they would have to cross the impassable Andes mountain range

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    1. Lehi landed on the West Coast. Until the death of Christ, mountains were considerably smaller and the East Coast was accessible. After the death of Christ, the mountains were raised to their current heights and the central area of South America was raised to its current "slightly above sea level" elevation, which moved the East Coast to its current coastline.

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  14. Wow so after Christ did nephites on the west side not travel to the Nephites cities on the east shoreline because there was an impassable mountain range between them same for the lamanites.

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    1. thats what Samuel said about about the Changes - WOW look at the exceedingly high mountains! WOW they sure are tall. Oh btw no high mountains in NY.

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  15. 1)
    David: As I told you earlier, I am not going to re-answer what has been written in this blog and my books for the past 8 years. If you don’t want to go back and research what has been written, it is simply a waste of time for me to answer your questions like you have come up with something no one else has ever thought of. As an example;
    1) That map has been shown in several ways and all the cities the Nephites built along the east sea has been covered numerous times.
    2) It’s an island, David. (2 Nephi 10:20). I do not answer chapter references—state a specific verse in Alma 50.
    3) The narrow pass is within the narrow neck—only one connection to the Land Northward (Alma 22:32) My narrow pass and narrow neck are flanked by the sea east and sea west until the sea east receded when the continent came fully up—again, this has been written about many times.
    4) They are part of the “round about” and it is the Land of Zarahemla, not the city of Zarahemla.
    5) You cannot be that stupid. This is explained.
    6) Yes it does and we have answered this several times. By repeating the same stupid statement does not change the answer.
    7) If you are referring to the map, this is again a stupid question that has been answered.
    8) Ether says they were herds and flocks—look it up. We’ve answered this.
    9) Dumb question. Hagoth’s shipyard was at the narrow neck of land. Alma 63:5)
    10) On several maps on our blog. You said to show you a map that answered Alma 22. I did!!!!!
    11) This has been answered, the rivers described, and some shown with pics. You must be blind.
    12) We have shown numerous maps showing where the city of Moroni was located. Look it up.
    13) You must know nothing about mountain country. In South America, there are three north-south cordilleras (that’s a mountain range, with several cross-country mountains, creating numerous valleys or plains. A large valley is the same as a plain, called an altiplano in South America and there are several.
    (continued)

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  16. 2)
    And yes I did answer those questions. You are too lazy to have read all that was written to you.
    1) Answered.
    2) Answered.
    4) You keep saying this, but wood is mentioned only with the Land Northward and the idea of using wood has been thoroughly answered.
    5) Answered.
    6) Stone walls around all their land, around all their cities, throughout the land. Do you have any evidence of such in your area??????
    7) These were defensive ridges (not mounds) and no evidence of same is possible to see today anywhere. What about the stone (Alma 48:8) which you keep avoiding to answer..
    David: You wrote: Alma chapter 50 is very problematic for you several Nephite cities were built along the East Sea.
    Response: There was an east sea from 600 B.C. until 34 A.D. – we have shown in numerous maps and writing where those cities were along the East Sea. But there is no mention of any Sea East or East Sea after 3 Nephi 8.
    David: You wrote: The Narrow pass is between the east sea and the west sea. Your east sea is hundreds of miles away if not thousands.
    Response: Our various maps have shown this throughout our blog. You keep ignoring what we have posted and shown. The map you are looking at was directed to your question about Alma 22. And my east sea is not hundreds or thousands of miles away. After the crucifixion, there was no Sea East of the Land of Promise.
    David: You wrote: And it came to pass that they did not head them until they had come to the borders of the land Desolation; and there they did head them, by the narrow pass which led by the sea into the land northward, yea, by the sea, on the west and on the east.
    Response: I can read—I quote that several times and use it in my maps. Evidently, you can’t read what I’ve written already. This has been answered numerous time.
    Michael Richardson wrote for my answer: David; the red line down his map is his estimation of where the east coast of the land of promise was prior to when the mountains were raised. As suggested previously, please actually read his posts (and optimally, his books) prior to spewing your walls of mostly incoherent babbling.
    David: You wrote: His map is very confusing he should extend his shoreline so it doesn't show rivers and land.
    Response: Numerous people have written about how great the map is and how much they appreciate it. It is not, however, an all inclusive map—it was an answer to your question regarding Alma 22. Evidently, you can’t even remember your own question.
    (continued)

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  17. 3)
    David: You wrote: Also he has the Andes mountains separating nephites on the east and west. Same would be for East and west lamanites between the Andes mountains.
    Response: This is ridiculous. You cannot possibly be that ignorant.
    David: You wrote: Didn't del say the Andes mountains were impassible
    Response: Yes, until aviation. Whether an individual ever scaled them to the other side is unknown. There is a single pass used by Darwin far down in Chile from Santiago over to Argentina.
    Again, I quote from Michael Richardson: I am looking at the map from 2/26/17. Are you referring to the same one? All notations have arrows that point to locations to the west of the red line (which would be his east coast). I'm not sure where you see the Andes dividing population groups.
    According to del not the Book of Mormon Lehi landed in the west side of the Andes mountains. But the nephites built cities on the East Sea shoreline. For nephites to travel from the west coast to the east coast they would have to cross the impassable Andes mountain range
    Response: You must not read at all. The Andes came up at the time of the crucifixion. All mountains are basically passable, particularly the western and central cordilleras because of passes and breaks. It is the Andes in the far east that run west to east for many miles, it would take crossing dozens of peaks, all over 18000 feet and some 20,000 and 22,000. If you do not know geography then why ask question and look so foolish?
    I quote from Michael Richardson again: Lehi landed on the West Coast. Until the death of Christ, mountains were considerably smaller and the East Coast was accessible. After the death of Christ, the mountains were raised to their current heights and the central area of South America was raised to its current "slightly above sea level" elevation, which moved the East Coast to its current coastline.
    David: You wrote: Wow so after Christ did nephites on the west side not travel to the Nephites cities on the east shoreline because there was an impassable mountain range between them same for the lamanites.
    Response: I refuse to believe you are that stupid and unable to understand semantics.

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    1. After the time of Christ the nephites still occupied lands on the east and west only problem though the Andes mountains made it impossible to travel from one side to another

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  18. David; It seems you should give this “word vendetta” of yours a rest, you have nothing to offer that is beneficial to our readers other than to show how people who have unworkable theories cannot only seem to grasp the truth, but even what is said to them outside their small little box in which they seem to think. 95% of your questions above have not only been answered, but numerous times.

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    1. Not quite del the Andes mountain is impassable before the time of Christ and after the time of Christ. According to your map the nephites would hav cities on both sides east and west side

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  19. The nephites did not live in the mountains the gadianton robbers would escape to the mountains

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  20. David: That's it. You have finally worn out my patience and pleasant nature. I'm finished with your ridiculous statements. Your last two posts show you have not read or do not take the time to understand what is written regarding this. Even today, the Andes mountains in-country do not interfere with Peruvians moving to the west and east in-country because there are so many passes and avenues for movement. Only beyond the borders in the east is there a problem. However, special trains and air flights have conquered the eastern cordilleras—you sound like a very uninformed individual with nothing to say that has value. I don't have the time for your constant haranguing and lack of intelligence on the matter of this subject. So far, you have had nothing to offer our readers, or anything to show that our scriptural information is inaccurate. So please go elsewhere with your diatribe.

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  21. Del,Your blog is very interesting.Every week I read your posts.I have a question.Where do you think the cities of David and Angola were built?La Libertad or Piura?

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  22. Alan: Thank you for your comments and question. The problem in answering such a question, as we have stated many times, is that there is insufficient information in the scriptural record to place most cities, and even lands. As an example, when the Nephites and Lamanites went to war during Mormon’s time, that war originally began around the Waters of Sidon near the borders of Zarahemla (Mormon 1:10). Within six years, four of which had been peaceful, Mormon is appointed head of the armies and the Nephites began to retreat toward the north countries (Mormon 2:3), which would be north of Zarahemla. They arrived in the city of Angola (Momron 2:4)—a city that had not been mentioned earlier in the scriptural record, so all we know of it is that it would be north of the Land of Zarahemla.
    Then they were driven out of Angola, and out of the Land of David (Mormon 1:5)—which is the first time the land of David or any city of David is mentioned. They were then driven into the land of Joshua, which was in the borders west by the seashore (Mormon 1:6)—but in the borders of what? What borders? Also, this is the first time the land of Joshua is mentioned. Obviously, all of these areas are north of the land of Zarahemla, and likely all three are in the west, possibly near the seashore like Joshua—but we do not know that for certain, for they could have been moving laterally across the land.
    During this 14 years between the huge battle involving 86,000 Lamanites and Nephites (Mormon 2:9), we don’t know if they moved anywhere, retreated further, or retook some of the earlier lost land to the south—nothing is said. Then, in the 15th year since that battle, the Nephites began to flee again before the Lamanite (Mormon 2:16) and came to the Land of Jashon and the city of Jashon (Mormon 2:17), which was near the land where Ammaron had deposited the records (Mormon 1:2), which Mormon then retrieved and wrote down the Nephite history of his lifetime (Mormon 2:17-18).
    The Nephites were then driven northward from wherever they were at this time to the Land of Shem (Mormon 2:20)—another city we know nothing about or where exactly it is. The following year a battle took place around the city of Shem, which resulted in the Lamanites fleeing and the Nephites following after them (Mormon 2:25-26)—however, we do not know in which direction the Lamanites fled, but can assume it was to the south, but it might have been laterally.
    At this time, the Nephites were victorious and “had again taken possession of the lands of our inheritance” (Mormon 2:27). While we don’t know how much of their previous lands they regained, it could have been as far south as the city of Zarahemla. However, at this point Mormon tells us the Lamanites and Nephites entered into a treaty, wherein the Lamanites took control of all the Land Southward and the Nephites took control of all the Land Northward (Mormon 2:28-29).
    Consequently, it is impossible to know with any certainty where the cities of David and Angola were specifically located. It could have been the lands you indicated, but then it could have been several other areas. It is the type of speculation we try to steer clear of doing.

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