Wednesday, June 7, 2017

Skilled or Unskilled Sailing—What is the Difference?

We get a lot of inquiries, and numerous theorists write about, how Lehi sailed here or there, needed or didn’t need help from mariners in the building and/or sailing,, what was the design of his ship, the course he took, and what difference all of this made in his voyage to the Land of Promise.
     For those who have been following us for some time, and those who have read our book “Lehi Never Saw Mesoamerica,” I apologize for all the redundancy and the over-stressing this point, but it seems that after eight years involved in this blog and the hundreds upon hundreds of inquiries received via email as well as comments made in the blog, it seems it is an idea, twice stated by Nephi, that is simply not understood by the typical reader of the scriptural record or even the self-assumed intelligent individual, and seems to be one of the most glaring errors nearly everyone makes in understanding what is meant when Nephi wrote:
    “And it came to pass after we had all gone down into the ship, and had taken with us our provisions and things which had been commanded us, we did put forth into the sea and were driven forth before the wind towards the promised land” (1 Nephi 18:8,emphasis ladded). To show that this was not just a one-time thought, Nephi adds in the next verse, “And after we had been driven forth before the wind for the space of many days” (1 Nephi 18:9, emphasis added), showing us that this was their means of travel, he continues with his narrative.
Driven forth before the wind is to be driven with the wind behind the sail and pushed forward in the direction the wind is blowing

As an example of a recent comment made on our blog by a rather persistent individual on this subject, he wrote: “If Lehi and his family (and the Mulekites) weren't skilled enough to sail 4000 miles to the Malay Peninsula, then how did they sail the 14,000 miles to Chile?”
    The problem some evidently have is in misunderstanding what took place then as opposed to now in regard to sailing capability, knowledge and understanding, for it is not a matter of skill, as anyone would well know as a long-time reader of our blog. It seems that one would know it is not a matter of skill we are dealing with (though that is a separate issue), but a matter of possibility. That is, no matter how skilled a sailor was anciently when on a square-rigged, fixed-sail ship that was “driven forth before the wind,” he could not sail into the wind—into the “no-go zone”—or even to windward or close-hauled—he had to have the wind behind him.
    That is not rocket science. 
    The only alternative to that is when man learned to tack in large ships, and later when he learned to use the sail like the wing of an airplane, i.e., to create lift--that is, for the wind to pull the vessel forward by means of the sail. None of this occurred for more than 1000 years after Lehi sailed.
    Evidently, however, far too many readers today have lived far too long in a world of diesel engines, and where upwind, tri-radial, stratis, and crosscut sails dominate capability, along with custom-laid fiber-aligned sail laminates for overcoming variant load paths, with iQ technology for design on racing sails and high-tech shape dynamics on cat-rigged or sailing sloops, ketches, yawls or gaff-rigged schooners with flying jibs and mounted spade, skeg or full keel rudders.
    Lehi did not live in a world where sailing toward the direction of the wind was a possibility in his type of ship (though that could have been done and had been for centuries in a small, coastal dhow type trading or fishing boat)—this is what Nephi told us when he twice stated that he was “driven forth before the wind.”
The winch allows you to tighten or loosen the sail by grinding the lines in or out; however, overlapping turns could trap the jib sheet and turn the boat on its side
Keep in mind, that the numerous free-sailing ships seen today where very experienced and fully capable crews can grind the sails on tight and then reset them as the boat changes tack (direction), which involves turning the boat so the bow passes through the wind while the sails and the crew change sides. The skipper will call out “Ready to go” then “Tacking” as they change the direction of the boat. The other exciting part is crossing tacks with other boats, avoiding them of course, and knowing who is ahead—which are all highly maneuverable acts, in which the boat will usually heel (lean) over a fair 
Racing and sailing boats need to move through the water as efficiently as possible, and when a steady heel angle is maintained, the blades and sails efficiently glide through tghe flow of the water and wind
A yacht with a keel usually isn’t tipped over by the wind, and as the wind powers up the   sails the heavy lead keel under the boat balances the force. A yacht can sail along heeling over at about forty-five degrees. It is advised to hold onto the boat, keep your feet pointed down and be aware that the boat will be angled down when you need to move, and as the boat sails around the course it will be on different angles to the wind. After the first windward mark the boat will normally be “reaching” (the wind coming from the side), and the boat is moving fastest on this course leg although it doesn’t seem as hectic as going to windward. Here the crew will ease the sheets a bit and it will seem less windy, where one can feel the sensation of speed as the gusts hit and watch the way the crew works the sheets.
    Then, when the wind is coming from behind it’s known as the downwind leg. Because the boat is moving along with the wind it will feel like the wind has stopped blowing. On this leg the crew will ease the sails right out to the sides and sometimes a spinnaker will be hoisted, though often twilight races do not allow spinnakers to promote the social aspect of the race. On the downwind leg the boat might need to gybe, which takes the boat from one tack to the other when sailing downwind by turning the stern through the wind. During the gybe the boom swings quickly from one side of the boat to the other. It’s important to keep your head low during this maneuver, with the skipper often yelling “heads” for a warning.
Racing yachts and boats have a totally different sail arrangement that was unknown on the sea until only recently

The point of this is to show that, depending on which leg of a race (or which direction in sailing) a ship is engaged, the crew’s experience and expertise varies from a great deal when sailing at all into the wind, to almost none when being driven forward by the wind behind the vessel. Thus, the comment: “If Lehi and his family (and the Mulekites) weren't skilled enough to sail 4000 miles to the Malay Peninsula, then how did they sail the 14,000 miles to Chile?” meaningless.
    In addition, the idea of sailing to Malay, as we have hammered away about time and again, would require sailing into the wind to some degree, which would negate the accuracy of Nephi’s statement: “driven forth before the wind.”
    So let’s take a quick look at Nephi’s words and meaning from the 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language:
1. Driven: “Urged forward by force”
2. Forth: “Forward”
3. Before: “in front of” “in the power of” “prior to” (“before the wind, is to move in the direction of the wind by its impulse”)
4. Wind: “Air in motion with any degree of velocity”
    We can easily see that Nephi is telling us that his ship was propelled forward or powered by the wind pushing it from behind, referred to by mariners as sailing “before the wind” or “with the wind.” This means that a ship must sail “downwind” if it is to reach its objective by sailing in the same direction as the wind blows. It is a simple statement, but one that carries with it a very important fact that cannot be ignored, though almost every theorist who writes about a specific Land of Promise location does so—for this simple reason: The point where Lehi set sail and the point where he landed will depend on the winds and ocean currents involved. If the winds and currents do not move in that direction, then Lehi could not have landed there—it is as simple as that. And unlike wind on land, that is effected by terrain, buildings, and mountains, the wind at sea does not change direction, and the sea currents maintain a steady direction other than twice a year change during monsoons. So when a ship is at sea, its direction is determined by a steady wind direction and a steady current direction.
    Thus, a square-rigged ship will perform well when sailing before the wind, though the fewer masts, the better since the wind first hits the aft-most sails, and has to move around them to reach the next set of sails, becoming less potent in the process. If there are three, four or five masts, by the time the wind moves around to reach the fore-sails, it can exert little power on them.
 
Left: “Driven forth before the wind,” Right: “Running Broad Reach”

As a result, Square Rigged ships get a good push forward, with a following wind first hitting the Main Sail and then the Fore Sail, but any more masts and the wind has less effect. Better when the wind comes in slightly to one side of the ship, in which case all sets of sails can receive at least some of the wind at full potential. So while Square Rigged ships can still sail fast at this heading, they perform a little better at “Running Broad Reach,” a benefit in sailing unknown for 1000 years after Lehi.
    This knowledge eventually led to ship design that added more and more masts and sail sets since all sails could receive equal wind velocity, such as the later 5-masted bargue and the "tea" clippers.
Three, four, five and six masted sailing ships. Learning to sail from the side, “Running Broad Reach” and “Broad Reach” allowed far more masts with sails open to the wind

When Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World, he was faced with the same problem that every sea captain of his age and hundreds of years before him were face, and that was finding winds to push his ship in the direction he wanted to go. The winds heading westward across the Atlantic happened to be at the Canary Islands, and once understood, Columbus was able to drop down to the Canaries and then head west across the Atlantic to the Bahamas. Until then, they could only sail south along the African coast, or northward along the Spanish and French coast to England and Gaul.
    So if you want to know where Lehi landed, take the ocean currents and winds blowing off the coast of the Arabian Peninsula and follow them to their destination, which happens to be to the Southern Ocean and across the Pacific to South America as we have illustrated here so many times.
    If the wind didn’t blow a certain direction, Lehi did not go in that direction. It is as simple as that!
    Back to the Reader’s comments: “Now I understand you believe that Lehi went south and did not pass this way [meaning toward Indonesia and Malay], and I find that to be a solid argument for New World models. But I find it extremely difficult to believe that anybody in 600 BC, regardless of what path they took, could have sailed from Oman to Chile.”
    When all the evidence shows you that is the direction they took, when Nephi tells you that he was driven by the winds, and NASA, NOAA, and every other oceanographic science tells you that is where the winds and currents went, then climb on board or give it a rest. If you want to remain on the wrong side of the issue, then of course, that is your right. But as the old saying goes, stop beating a dead horse.
Lehi’s Course, “being driven forth before the wind”

29 comments:

  1. The odds of three different groups leaving at different times in different vessels and arriving at the same point 14,000 miles away are very slim.

    However, if they had followed the winds and currents east there is little doubt they all would have hit the Malay Peninsula.

    Your theory is interesting but statistically improbable. In all probability, any vessel riding the currents east would land within 700 miles of each other, on the Malay Peninsula.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Jay, I think Del has already proven that Idea in correct. Look at the data again. It is quite clear that if Nephi sailed with his ship from Oman he would his India. Sorry your theory simply doesn't work. Nephi would have to tack and he never said he did. Your theory is not only improbable for Nephi but impossible for Nephi.

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  3. Jay - the odds are very good infact because the Lord told these people where to stir. The winds and currents take them to South America. It doesn't take any of them to Malaysia. Your theory is impossible.

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  4. I agree that the science is on the side of Del. However to prove his point, we do need someone to actually build a sail boat and leave the Salalah area and arrive in the Coquimbo area.

    What brave explorer does anyone suggest for doing this?

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  5. "It is quite clear that if Nephi sailed with his ship from Oman he would his India."

    Not if he was "driven forth by the wind" around India and right into the Malay Peninsula. Ira, please watch this video animation because it will save us a lot of time. I encourage anyone who might be following this increasingly futile conversation to just watch the animation, and see how the wind blows directly from Oman to the Malay Archipelago. The currents also follow that same path.

    https://cloudup.com/cKE3mrZKLLC

    As Del said, if you want to remain on the wrong side of the issue, then of course, that is your right. But as the old saying goes, stop beating a dead horse.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Unknown: You wrote: “Lava is not something that is created ex nihilo. It is made of stuff that is often millions of years old. The scientists in the particular study were not dating the lava, they were dating the olivine stuck in the lava. The paper itself stated the correct date of the lava flows, but gave a date of millions of years for the olivine. There was no discrepancy until creationists totally misread the paper to support their opinions. I imagine you will now do the same with my comment.”
    Joseph Smith told us, and we should certainly believe what he has said since modern science has now verified this, that matter can neither be created or annihilated, only organized and reorganized, therefore, it is eternal, i.e., as old as anything can be. God told Jehovah to “go down and organize this world” and that was done with “matter unorganized” and thus, we find parts here and there of this earth that are very old, and some not so old in their present form, whether in, out or on the ground.
    This is not a mystery.
    As for you writing: “The odds of three different groups leaving at different times in different vessels and arriving at the same point 14,000 miles away are very slim.”
    This is silly. If you and I and Ira and Richard were to leave Los Angeles and head east toward New York, all taking the same interstate freeway system we would end up in the same place in New York even if we left at totally different times because that is where the highway goes and we would be on it. The routes across the Pacific, which are extremely well documented and even used today for races and long-distance sailing, end up in the exact same place half-way around the world. Your argument is fallacious.
    You also wrote: “Your theory is interesting but statistically improbable. In all probability, any vessel riding the currents east would land within 700 miles of each other, on the Malay Peninsula.”
    You sound like a broken record. Despite your very own images showing you this is incorrect you keep hammering away and not paying attention to anything you disagree with. If you cannot come up with new material, then this discussion is at an end and I will simply cut you off—as Einstein said, this is insanity to keep saying the same thing over and over again and expect a different outcome. The currents and winds and set, they are well diagrammed and conclusive. Either accept the facts, or go elsewhere.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Here are my very own images of that freeway system leading right to the point where the first civilization on the peninsula appeared within 50 years of the Lehite departure.

      https://cloudup.com/cUEbmTVSqN1

      If you can watch that animation and still say that the wind does not blow to the Malay Archipelago, then yes, I will take my facts and go elsewhere.

      Delete
  7. (Continuing) Unknown. You also wrote: “Not if he was "driven forth by the wind" around India and right into the Malay Peninsula.”
    I have shown you in your own drawing that this is not correct. First of all, getting around India—a distance of 1700 miles from where Lehi set sail—is not a possibility by your own animated image!!!!! You can’t just pick up Lehi’s ship and put it down in the middle of the ocean beyond all the winds and currents moving against it and say this is what happened. Read the material written in the last several days, including today, which are all rebuttals of your own image which does not show any drift voyage from Salalah to Malay—PERIOD!
    You also wrote: “Ira, please watch this video animation because it will save us a lot of time. I encourage anyone who might be following this increasingly futile conversation to just watch the animation, and see how the wind blows directly from Oman to the Malay Archipelago.”
    You must be blind. It does not do that. And the past posts this week show you that. Either get off this issue, ow stop writing on this blog. You are wasting valuable time with inaccuracy after inaccuracy.

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    Replies
    1. One more time:

      https://cloudup.com/cUEbmTVSqN1

      Delete
    2. One more time Del has already shown you it can't work. Maybe you need a little visual. The Cubscouts have something called rain gutter regatta. Go buy yourself one of the boats. Put it together and blow on the sail. You will notice something quite remarkable. The boat floats in the direction of the wind. Try it - maybe you'll learn something.

      Delete
    3. This animation shows the direction the wind blows on the sails. Leaving Oman the wind blows towards the Horn of Africa, and then it meets winds blowing up from the south and creates a wind tunnel that leads directly to the Malay Archipelago. There is very little chance that anything that is being driven forth by the wind wouldn't end up in that wind tunnel.

      https://cloudup.com/cUEbmTVSqN1

      Delete
  8. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  9. This map shows a landing on the western shore of northern Sumatra--you just can't skip around solid land masses in a drift voyage. And this map is not the one you have been promoting. It is another one that requires another set of understandings, such as the downward leg from Salalah heads into the African coast and to get into a swing into the eastward movement one would have to move against the currents for some three hundred miles to get far enough into the lane to swing eastward.

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  10. Here are my very own images of that freeway You wrote: "system leading right to the point where the first civilization on the peninsula appeared within 50 years of the Lehite departure."
    Send me a link to the original animation without anyone writing on it.

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    Replies
    1. Its the same website I have shared dozens of times. Click around, you'll find a number of different combinations of winds and currents. Some dates support your theory, some support mine. I simply want to point out that both are possible.

      https://earth.nullschool.net/#2016/11/20/2100Z/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-285.30,0.01,689/loc=99.414,6.554

      Delete
  11. It's also interesting how you pick out one comment of a dozen to respond to and ignore the others. Answer them all.

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  12. And go back and answer all the comments in opposition to your remarks you have made that we have written and you have not responded to. Stop cherry picking your comfort zone.

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    Replies
    1. I pretty much agree with everything else you have said. The only thing I disagree with is your claim that the winds do not blow to the Malay Archipelago. Some months they do, and other months they don't. But your claim that they never do is simply false.

      Everything else you have said about boating and currents etc. I agree with.

      Delete
  13. I have such a hard time with your point of view in somehow thinking that though this information you send shows that a band several miles wide from the shore of Arabia southward out into the Sea of Arabia has currents and winds flowing west into the Gulf of Aden, or southwest into Somalia in North Africa, you seem to think that that doesn't matter, that “somehow” Lehi's ship could jump into the lanes that show a movement to the south that eventually curves back, wraps around at the equator (1250 miles away) and flows to the east. My friend, go get a boat of any size, preferably one around Nephi’s size of 80 to 120 tons, put a fixed sail on it, meaning you can only be pushed forward by a trailing wind, and launch it into this sea off the coast of Oman. The first thing you are going to find is that it is driving you straight along the Arabian shore past Yemen and into the Gulf of Aden. But even if you could manage to steer wide of that 400-mile long gulf entrance into the Red Sea, and manage to steer south across the 200 miles wide opening of that gulf, which based on the 250 miles from Salalah to the opening of the gulf, you would have to steer 250 miles due south, across currents moving west by southwest to miss the island of Suqutra, which is a great trick in a ship that is “driven forth before the wind” (be sure and tell me how you managed to sail 250 south across west by southwest winds and currents dependent on a west by southwest flowing wind—we’ll write you up in the sailing journals, maybe even enter you in the world racing regattas with that talent—now, even if you could do that, which would simply not be possible in a ship dependent solely upon the wind direction, you would still be in the west by southwest winds passing to the south of Suqutra which would take you right into the North African coast along the Somalia shore. Too bad I can’t use your own map to show you these currents here, but the comments section will not allow posting of images and I’m not going to devote another full article to this stupidity.
    What you fail to understand as you look at your own map, as did the individual who drew on the huge blue arrows, not following the current and wind lines, but his own determination (was that you? Or was that Olsen?), is that a ship “driven forth before the wind” has to go where the winds take it, i.e., where those lines flow—you just can’t draw a line on a map. Those current and wind lines from Salalah to the southwest ALL flow either directly into the Gulf of Aden (those closest to the shore along a 200-250 mile wide band of ocean for only 250 miles before being trapped to the north of Suqutra, where your own map reference shows this current stream – 200 miles wide – and can manage to steer to the south of Suqutra is still going to be pinned into the current that slams into the coast along Somolia. (continuing)

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  14. (Continuing) However, the point is, there would be no way for a ship “driven forth before the wind” to bypass these currents along the coast heading west unless they could somehow jump about 250 miles due south and set down in the stream that circles into the equatorial counter-current moving east and into Sumatra (not Malay).
    By the way, that animated map you see on the website you are so fond of is not a reaction to the real winds and currents, but what has been programmed into it by humans—and whoever did that, forgot to program in the Somolia Current. Look it up, any internet search will show it, and it has a tremendous effect on the winds and currents blowing along that area which also will show the Northeast and Southwest Drift current which is not particularly highlighted by your map, either.
    Your map also defies the entire concept of the Coriolis Effect which DEMANDS that an ocean current flow in a circular patter COUNTER-CLOCKWISE south of the equator, but your map shows a strong flow that defies this standard and totally accepted, undisputed, and always correct tenet of oceanography. Having nothing but their maps to go by, I cannot find any type of answer to that anomaly in their map.
    Now, once again, would all of this make any difference to sailing today? NO. And not for the past 300 years or more. But in 600 B.C. and before and for some 1000 years afterward, absolutely YES.
    So stop sending maps as though that is the answer to all answers. We use maps as support, but not as totally unsupported stand-alone data.

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    1. The map plots wind data from the US Weather Service. Its about as accurate as you can get. Since you are pulling out the fine tooth comb to scrutinize every gust of wind, I made one more video at a higher resolution so you can clearly see the path for a ship driven forth by the wind:

      https://cloudup.com/cR4izkWdB0O

      There's a few miles of going against the wind just off Salalah, but after that it is clear the winds could easily carry a boat without a steering mechanism right to the point where the first civilization on the Malay Peninsula appears in the 6th century BC.

      https://cloudup.com/cR4izkWdB0O

      I followed the wind lines as closely as I could, but even then there is still leeway for a clear path.

      Delete
  15. You have still not answered the question asked you several times--if the Lord was taking Lehi just to Malay, why go to all that trouble of building such a boat that was unlike that of man in every way? Why not just use one of the large dhows constructed at the time, or have Nephi build a dhow style ship like the ones that followed if he wanted Nephi to go through the faith-building exercise. After all, these coastal boast had been sailing from Arabia to Indonesia for centuries before Lehi and were fully capable of reaching your Malay destination. However, the ship the Lord taught and showed Nephi how to build was quite different. In fact, the Lord said, "Thou shalt construct a ship, after the manner which I shall show thee, that I may carry thy people across these waters" suggesting that a ship built like those of man would not carry Lehi and his people across the waters the Lord intended them to cross. Forget the currents, winds, directions, etc. Just answer this one question for me with workable and reasonable rationale to show why this scriptural reference doesn't tell us that Nephi's trip was to be both long and far more hazardous than the coastal vessel voyages man was taking at the time.

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    1. Dhows were not known to make that voyage so early. The first evidence we have of anyone completing that long trip is much later, around the 2nd century AD and even that is not certain. There is some reason to suspect Malays were able to sail to the Middle East around the time of Christ, but before that goods were traded at ports and relayed to different boats and passed along. There weren't boats available that could hold a group the size of Lehi's and Ishmael's family with room to spare for all the supplies. A much larger ship would be needed, and a much larger ship could not easily ride the coastline.

      So God gave them a design for a new style of boat that could hold 30+ people and all their possessions.

      Delete
  16. It is interesting to me that you are in such a habit of making outright statements, but never show reference, source, listing, etc. As an example, to comment on the above, According to Joseph Needham, Science and Civilization in China: Volume 4, Physics and Physical Technology, Part 3, Civil Engineering and Nautics. Caves Books Ltd, Taipei, 1986, the Chinese had a full-fledged Navy in 722 B.C., including ships and ship types. The huge junks, and treasure ships (450-feet long, 180-feet wide), were not known then, of course, but ships enough to have carried Lehi’s family were. The point is, the technology of making and building such boats was known before Lehi’s time. Less than 100 years after Lehi’s leaving Jerusalem, King Helu of Wu said, “Nowadays in training naval forces we use the tactics of land forces for the best effect. Thus great wing ships correspond to the army's heavy chariots, little wing ships to light chariots, stomach strikers to battering rams, castle ships to mobile assault towers, and bridge ships to light cavalry” (Needham, Vol 4, Part 3, p678). This suggests a lengthy period of development and practice before this time. Xu Fu’s expedition drawing huge Naval maps took place about 300 B.C. And the technology of the Greeks building huge ships was only two or three hundred years away when Lehi sailed. In 52 A.D. the Chinese were using huge trebuchets (catapults) on towering decks of ships.
    As for Arabia, The Arabian Sewa has been an important marine trade route since the ear of the coastal sailing vessels form possible as early as the 3000 B.C., certainly well before 1000 B.C. and clear to the Age of Sail. According to Denemark, sea navigation was known in Sumer between the 4th and 3rd millennium B.C., and known to the Indians and Chinese even before the Sumerians

    ReplyDelete
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    1. "It is interesting to me that you are in such a habit of making outright statements, but never show reference, source, listing, etc."

      I provided sources the last time we discussed this. But I'll repost here: "As you say the dhow was only one type of vessel. There were others used in Southeast Asia that were much larger called kolandiaphonta. These were crossing the Bay of Bengal and were likely capable of deep sea voyages. It is speculation, but it is possible that the Lehites may have based their design on one of these kolandiaphonta."

      And then in the next comment I wrote:

      Wanted to add this comment on the kolandiaphonta ships which were said to be massive, 50 meters in length and stand out of the water four to five meters, and carry six to seven hundred people.

      https://www.evernote.com/l/AAgJtWQnCZ1BVrk_rz_ytrv2B0oFfaVvU_g

      And unlike other trading ships these kolandiaphonta were not coastal vessels. They cut right across the bay, through deep water.

      https://www.evernote.com/l/AAhzfzg3ypdIepaDVh3Ydww38CLlBtVTz2g

      -----

      So I am well aware of the type of technology the Chinese and Malay were using. But as mentioned in the comments at the links above, "It was not possible to sail from one end of the route, such as the Persian Gulf/Red Sea area, to the other end, in China, in one voyage." There is no evidence the Chinese ever sailed their ships west of the Strait of Malacca, and there is no evidence the Malay ever sailed the kolandiaphonta west of India. Trade wasn't direct in those days. Goods were passed along in a relay system from one port to the next.

      Delete
  17. You also neglected to comment at all about our rebuttal of your earlier comments--but you will continue to state those points over and over again, ignoring anything but your map. My word.

    ReplyDelete
  18. According to Joseph Needham, Science and Civilization in China: Volume 4, Physics and Physical Technology, Part 3, Civil Engineering and Nautics. Caves Books Ltd, Taipei, 1986, the Chinese had a full-fledged Navy in 722 B.C., including ships and ship types. The huge junks, and treasure ships (450-feet long, 180-feet wide), were not known then, of course, but ships enough to have carried Lehi’s family were. The point is, the technology of making and building such boats was known before Lehi’s time. Less than 100 years after Lehi’s leaving Jerusalem, King Helu of Wu said, “Nowadays in training naval forces we use the tactics of land forces for the best effect. Thus great wing ships correspond to the army's heavy chariots, little wing ships to light chariots, stomach strikers to battering rams, castle ships to mobile assault towers, and bridge ships to light cavalry” (Needham, Vol 4, Part 3, p678). This suggests a lengthy period of development and practice before this time. Xu Fu’s expedition drawing huge Naval maps took place about 300 B.C. And the technology of the Greeks building huge ships was only two or three hundred years away when Lehi sailed. In 52 A.D. the Chinese were using huge trebuchets (catapults) on towering decks of ships.
    As for Arabia, The Arabian Sewa has been an important marine trade route since the ear of the coastal sailing vessels form possible as early as the 3000 B.C., certainly well before 1000 B.C. and clear to the Age of Sail. According to Denemark, sea navigation was known in Sumer between the 4th and 3rd millennium B.C., and known to the Indians and Chinese even before the Sumerians

    ReplyDelete
  19. Now, having spent some time with your map in the last internet connection you sent, let me repeat some of the comments made by the designers of the map (Copyright © 2017 Cameron Beccario).
    • A visualization of global weather conditions forecast by supercomputers;
    • The ocean surface temperatures and anomaly from daily average;
    • Ocean surface current are estimates by GFS (Global Forecast System);
    • Wind speeds shown at specified heights
    • Wind directions shown are the most energetic waves passing through a particular point, whether wind generated or swells;
    • Certainly, there are many more groups of waves moving through an area, each in different directions, but trying to show them all rapidly becomes complex—Instead, we show the one wave group contributing the most energy. This has the effect, though, of creating "boundaries" between regions of ocean where the #1 wave group suddenly switches to second place. Often these boundaries represent swell fronts, but other times they are just artifacts of the ranking mechanism;
    • The GEOS-5 data used on this site have been provided by the Global Modeling and Assimilation Office (GMAO) at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center through the online data portal in the NASA Center for Climate Simulation [however, it is not their plots, merely raw info];
    Now, on another site, “Those Animated ‘Real-Time’ Wind Maps are Fooling You,” article by Dennis Mersereau, states: “The most popular site that shows these wind streamlines is simply called ‘Earth,” hosted at nullschool.net. Almost everyone who looks at these maps (sadly including some meteorologists) really believe that these are showing you real-time wind maps; that when you look at these streamlines, you're actually watching air flowing across the earth's surface; however, that is accurate. Actually, people are misled about what the maps show that are fooling you. Just like every other weather map in existence, these animated streamlines are a snapshot of the winds at a point in time.” And that snapshot is not always accurate, depending on how much data the program is given to display. As stated above on the “Earth” website maps, figures are often averages, examples, projections, or estimates. Sadly, our technology isn't that advanced. Yet.
    As pointed out above, at least two gravely important errors exist within these maps on null.school, and that is:
    1. All the existing currents are not shown, only certain predominant ones;
    2. Gravitational, spin, and deflection appear to be missing, such as in the Coriolis Effect, which forces waters north of the equator to spin in a clockwise rotation and counter-clockwise in rotation to the south of the equator.
    More is likely mission, but would take more time to examine that can be spent on this.
    The point is, all these issues effect the direction of waves, sea currents, and even winds.

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    1. Of course it is not possible to plot wind in real time, so yes that map is based on the best data we have, which is snapshots of conditions at multiple intervals over time. I wish we had a completely accurate 360 degree worldview of wind and ocean current in 598 BC, but we don't. All we can do is work with the best data available to us, and draw our own conclusions. Obviously we draw different conclusions from the data.

      There is not one single map that animates wind and currents together, that is why I posted two separate links before. One for wind, and the other for currents. Here are the currents for the same time period that the wind snapshots were taken:

      https://earth.nullschool.net/#2016/11/20/2100Z/ocean/surface/currents/orthographic=-285.30,0.01,689/loc=99.414,6.554

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