Continuing with comments and questions received from readers
of the blog.
Comment #1: “I’m sending this map along of a
Mesoamerican example of the Land of Promise, showing the land of Nephi on the
south, and the land of Zarahemla on the north. Looks like it matches Mormon’s
description to me” Clayton W.
Response: All right.
So where is the Land of Bountiful north of Zarahemla, and where is the narrow
neck of land north of that, and where is the Land of Desolation north of that,
and the Land of Many Waters north of that, with the Land of Cumorah and the
Hill of Cumorah? (see Alma 22:27-34 as references) We are not dealing with a
partial map, which this one is since the other areas are located in different
areas, but a complete map showing all of Mormon’s descriptions included in a
single map.
Comment #2: “In attempting to determine the width of the narrow neck of land based
on the day and a half’s journey for a Nephite, Sorenson commits error one
because the day and a half’s journey applies to the length of one of the
Nephites’ defensive lines in the first century BC rather than to the distance
across the narrow neck of land. The Book of Mormon contains nothing whatsoever
about the width across the narrow neck of land. However, readers can be assured
that the distance is about 150 miles because the Isthmus of Tehuantepec is unquestionably
the narrow neck of land of the Book of Mormon”
Garet A.
Response: You have made three
glaring errors: 1) The narrow neck of land is referenced with its distance of a
day and a half (Alma 22:32), which is not the same as 2) the defensive line of
a day’s journey (Helaman 4:7), and 3) The Isthmus of Tehuantepec is 144 miles
across and Mesoamerica is not the Land of Promise. Sorenson made numerous
errors in his writing, but the travel time across the narrow neck of land was
not one of them, though it could never be achieved across his narrow neck of
land of 144 miles.
Comment #3: “Contrary to your depiction of a wilderness being an uninhabited area
and could range from mountains to desert to forest to plains, etc., the Spanish translation of the Book of
Mormon translates the word as desierto, a desert, rather than silvestre which
means wild or unpopulated” Gerri P.
The Rub’ al Khali, the Empty Quarter, in
southern Arabian Peninsula. When Lehi turned nearly east, they crossed this
desert, which they called a wilderness (1 Npehi 17:1)
Response: The use of
the word desierto, meaning
"desert", also means deserted, or void, or a wasteland, or dead,
empty, and can mean “a wild, uninhabited and uncultivated tract,” or deserted
or void or uninhabited, such as in “a desolate or forbidding area.” As an
example, clamar en el desierto is
translated as “to preach in the wilderness” travesia
del desierto, means a “period in the wilderness,” un desierto de ruinas means “a
wildnerness of ruins,” está predicando en el desierto,
means “he is a voice (crying) in the wilderness,” and, as befitting here, predicar en el desierto, means to “flog a
dead horse.” On the other hand, the word Silvestre is more often translated as
wild, but also uncultivated, rustic, rural, savage. In Latin, the word silva means wood, and is typically used
as the name Sylvester (Spanish: Silvestre), which means “woody or wooded.”
Therefor, in Spanish, silvestre could
mean “wooded,” but it is far more often translated as “wild,” which would not
be the correct translation for wilderness as is disierto.
Comment
#4: “I agree with
James Warr’s book, A New Model for Book of Mormon Geography, wherein he
states that the narrow neck of land is necessarily linked to the identification
of the east and west seas of the Book of Mormon account. Obviously, it seems,
if we could pinpoint its location correctly, the sites for other features and
cities would eventually follow. So, since you have determined the narrow neck
of land in your model, where are the other cities?” Orson G.
Response: You are in good company with Mesoamericanists
since John E. Clark also agrees with you. However, the idea of finding where
cities were through matching the scriptural record, two very distinct problems
arise: 1) Starting out with the right location for Land of Promise, and 2)
Finding clues that can pinpoint a specific city. The problem with the latter,
is that there are so few clues about any city that would make it possible to
locate it more than in general terms. As an example, we know that the city of
Zarahemla was located in the general area north of the narrow strip of
wilderness and to the west of the River Sidon, and south of the wilderness of
Hermounts. However, we don’t know where the River Sidon was located. Creating a
model and saying that it has a south to north flowing river is not sufficient
since many areas could be made to agree with that simple clue—there is a south
to north flowing river in Andean South America, in Mesoamerica, and in the
Great Lakes area. We know that the Sidon River flowed to the Sea, but we do not
know into which sea if flowed, nor do we know how far it was from the city of
Zarahemla, or how long it ran, or if it ran straight after passing the city of
Zarahemla, etc., etc., etc. We only know it’s headwaters was in the South
Wilderness, that narrow strip of wilderness mentioned in Alma 22:27.
An aerial view of Sacsayhuaman overlooking Cuzco
in Peru. The round circle in the center is the tower base, and to the left is
the temple foundations. The stones were carried off by the Spanish to build
their own cathedrals, houses, etc.
The City of Nephi is identified as having a temple and near
it a tower (Mosiah 11:12; 19:5), high enough for Noah to climb upon and see as
far as the land of Shemlon (Mosiah 19:6; 20:8), and the land of Shilom and
round about (Mosiah 11:12). Now this tower and temple are combined landmarks
where both might be found, providing the city complex was in the Land Southward
and was “the chief city” in the land of Nephi (Alma 47:20). A tower
base has been located next to a temple in a major city complex in Cuzco, Peru.
In fact, the tower and temple were still standing when the Spanish
conquistadors arrived, with the tower playing an important role in the eventual
surrender of the Inca. The base of this tower and temple can still be seen
today (see above image).
In addition, we know that many Nephite cities were fortified
with stone walls all around (Alma 48:8), and Moroni cast up earth around his
armies. While there are none of these building complexes (other than dirt
mounds) in North America, there are numerous such city complexes in South
America, and at least one in Mesoamerica.
Left:
The moat around Becan in the Yucatan of
Mexico; Right: The stone wall around Kulap in Peru
However, take the city of Moroni.
We only know it was along the southern East Sea. There is not one clue
mentioned in connection to the city or land, and the same could be said about nearly
every other city in the scriptural record. Certainly we can determine in which
direction many lay from another location, but even so, we still have no
specific setting to determine where any city was to begin the direction. While
Mesoamerican Theorists love to tell us where most of these cities, lands,
rivers, and waters were located, they are simply looking at their Mesoamerican
map and labeling certain ruins with Book of Mormon names. Again, that is
neither scholarship nor honest.
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