We seem to be receiving a lot more questions and comments
lately and we will endeavor to answer them all; however, it might take a while
because of our backlog of articles we are also posting.
Comment #1: “It seems your large numbers for the
Jaredites are not justified when we realize that the numbers mentioned included
men, women and children. You cannot add, then, women and children to the
numbers as you have done” Keeler T.
Response: The numbers
of Jaredites is given during the last battle. After years of fighting, “Now the
loss of men, women and children on both sides was so great that Shiz commanded
his people that they should not pursue the armies of Coriantumr; wherefore,
they returned to their camp” (Ether 14:31). In this we see that there were huge
losses in both armies. Later, we find that Coriantumr’s losses are described
as: “He saw that there had been slain by the sword already nearly two millions
of his people, and he began to sorrow in his heart; yea, there had been slain
two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children” (Ether
15:2).
These numbers can be
seen in one of two ways. Either Corianturmr’s army lost two million, or that
both armies lost a combined two million. Either way, however, that number did
not include women and children, for Ether states: “there had been slain two millions of mighty men, and also their wives and their children.”
Consequently, if we add a wife for a man, that would be four million. If we add
two children per couple, that would be eight million. Since the Jaredites had
very large families, we could add 4 or 6 children to a family, making the
totals 12 to 16 million. If those numbers were per army, that is Coriantumr
lost two million, and Shiz lost a like number, then we are dealing with
anywhere from 16 million to 64 million. You pick the number you like, but it
cannot be less than about 6 to 8 million in round numbers (2 million men, 2 million
women, 4 million children).
Comment #2: “What makes you think the Jaredites and
Nephites didn’t occupy the Land of Promise at the same time?” Cruser Todd.
Response: “And he
spake also concerning the house of Israel, and the Jerusalem from whence Lehi
should come” (Ether 13:5), which should point out that at the time of Ether
(the last of the Jaredites other than Coriantumr), Lehi had not yet arrived in
the Land of Promise. At what point he did arrive in connection with the
Jaredites is not known, but it would have had to have been at least during
Ether’s later life, or more likely after the last Jaredite battle. As an
example, we do not know how long Ether lived after Coriantumr killed Shiz.
We don’t know how
long Coriantumr lived before he wandered into the Mulekite camp (the people of
Zarahemla). We only know he lived nine months after meeting up with the
Mulekites. But somewhere between when Ether wrote that passage (which Moroni
interpreted in his abridgement of Ether’s record) and Corantumr’s arrival among
the Mulekites in Zarahemla, he killed Shiz. As has been mentioned in previous posts,
it is likely that Coriantumr wandered about for a time after this last battle
so he could see the terrible destruction brought about by his stubbornness and
unwillingness to obey the Lord and repent of his sins. What fitting punishment
it would have been for him to wander among all the bodies of his dead people,
and especially of those of his wife and children. As for the years involved, my
personal belief is that the Jaredites were annihilated sometime around 600 to
580 B.C., and that after Mulek and those who came with him to the Land of
Promise landed and settled in the area of Zarahemla, that Coriantumr wandered
into their encampment. Personally, I consider it to have been several years between the final
battle and the time he arrived in the Mulekite camp, since I think it fitting
that the Lord would have allowed him that time to see and think about his
decision not to be obedient. But as for the record, it seems clear that Lehi had
not yet left Jerusalem, or at least arrived in the Land of Promise, when Ether
recorded his statement.
Comment #3: “I was talking to someone Sunday and they
were telling me that while there is no evidence of cement buildings anywhere in eastern U.S. or Canada,
archaeologists have determined that the vast majority of discovered
archaeological sites dating to the time period of the Book of Mormon are
located in Mesoamerica” J.T.
Response: Obviously, this was
stated by a Mesoamericanist—to them there is no South America. The funny thing
is, many of the sites they claim are not dated during the first half of Nephite
times, but are dated later, beginning in the last part of the last century B.C.
and many beginning in the A.D. period; yet the sites in Andean Peru date to the
early Nephite period.
Comment #4: “The area in and around the Isthmus of Tehuantepec constituted the
embryo for both the calendar system and the written language of the Americas.
This fact alone virtually eliminates any other geographical area from being
considered as “lands of the Book of Mormon”
Thatch G.
Left: Rongorongo; Center: Mayan; Right: Reformed Egyptian. These
languages are not similar in any way, nor can it be said they grew out of one
another
Response: The written language
of the Americas is an interesting term. Rongorongo was a written system of
glyphs of Easter Island brought there, according to their elders, from the
mainland of South America. On the other hand, neither Rongorongo nor the Mayan
glyphs resemble in any way either Hebrew or any form of Egyptian—especially the
reformed Egyptian whose sample we have from Joseph Smith. Therefore, a written
language of the Mayan has no bearing on any Book of Mormon language and,
consequently, of limited import. As for other areas, let’s consider just a
couple from the scriptural record—the two unknown animals the curelom and the
cumom (Ether 9:19), or the two unknown grains, the neas and sheum (Mosiah 9:9),
or the herbs that cured fever (Alma 46:40).
Nothing in Mesoamerican can satisfy
these two descriptions; however, one could say that the only two animals that
meet the description in the Book of Mormon that would have been unknown to
Joseph Smith, are found solely in Andean Peru; and the only two grains that
could be considered equal to corn, wheat and barley, that would have been
unknown to Joseph Smith, are found solely in Andean Peru; and the only place in
the world before the 19th century A.D. that had a plant or herb that
could cure fevers (malaria) is found in Andean Peru—thus, “these facts alone
virtually eliminates any other geographical area from being considered as lands
of the Book of Mormon.” We could go on, but while these and numerous other
points could be used that are taken from the scriptural record itself—a
calendar system is not taken from the record, and a written language would not
exist during Lamanite times after 421 A.D. in the Land of Promise, thus it
cannot be claimed that those two items must exist today.
Comment #5: “Regarding Mesoamerica, Columbus was
directed to ‘the promised land,’ yet he never visited North America” Vinny
V.
Response: True. But he also
never visited Mesoamerica, i.e., southern Mexico, the Yucatan Peninsula, Guatemala,
Belize, etc. It might be of interest to note that he did, however, visit South America.
Comment #6: “When you say Central America, that includes
Mesoamerica and everything south. However, given
the funnel shape of Central America, it is unlikely that any proposed
geographies to the south of Guatemala and El Salvador would qualify for the
Book of Mormon lands”
Briggs H.
Response: Central America is not used in this blog as a substitute
for Mesoamerica. In fact, North America includes all of Mexico, except the
Yucatan Peninsula, and Central America includes everything else to the
Panama-Colombia border, with South America south of there—though some claim
Central America is everything beyond the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. Mesoamerica is
not truly a designation of the Western Hemisphere—it stands for Middle America.
However, it is used to designate a specific area, part of North America and
part of Central America, from about Mexico City to about the Guatemala border
with Honduras. Some people give it a little more distance into Honduras. The
term Mesoamerica in this blog is used to designate the area that FARMS and
other people and groups use to claim was the Book of Mormon Land of Promise.
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