This mountainous backbone of the Malay peninsula shows a solid connection from far into the mainland clear down to the southern tip of the peninsula and that, as geologists point out, would not have allowed for the peninsula to have ever been separated.
Top: Titiwangsa Mountains running along the backbone of the peninsula; Bottom:
The Kra Isthmus, the narrowest and lowest point along the peninsula in southern
Thailand and Myanmar
This means that the ocean in Indonesia, which would include the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean would have had to have been about 260 feet higher than today for this separation of the southern peninsula to have been an island at any time, and that would leave only an island 840 miles long across the Malacca Platform—hardly sufficient for the entire history of the Jaredites, Nephites and Lamanites to occupy.
However, what geologists tell us is that the Indonesian area was actually higher at one time with ocean levels much lower than now. In fact, according to T. Tomascik, et al, Sundaland, or the Sundaic region, land bridges connected the islands of Borneo, Java, and Sumatra to the Malay Peninsula and mainland Asia, corresponding to a larger landmass that was exposed throughout the last 2.6 million years during periods when sea levels were lower. It includes the Malay Peninsula on the Asian mainland, as well as the large islands of Borneo, Java, and Sumatra and their surrounding islands (T. Tomascik, J.A. Mah, A. Nontji, and M.K. Moosa, M.K., The Ecology of the Indonesian Seas – Part One. Hong Kong: Periplus Editions, Hong Kong, 1996, pp580–581).
In fact, the area of Sundaland encompasses the Sunda Shelf, a tectonically stable extension of Southeast Asia’s continental shelf that was exposed during glacial periods of the last 2 million years (Mark de Bruyn, Björn Stelbrink, Robrt J. Morley, et al, “Borneo and Indochinas are Major Evolutionary Hotspots for Southeast Asian Biodiversity,” Systematic Biology, Vol 63 (6), 2014, pp879-901)
The Sahul Shelf
and the Sunda Shelf today. The area in between is called Wallacea—at one time,
shown in the grayed area, far more land was above water, forming a connecting
land bridge between several of these major islands and the Malay Peninsula, as
well as between Australia and Papua New Guinea
Geologic studies have shown that entire submerged river systems are observable beneath the oceans of the Siam River System, Malacca Straits River System, North Sunda River System and the East River System, all at one time flowing above the surface on the ancient lands.
Drawing
of the raised coast lines in South-East Asia and now submerged river
systems—the river beds are based on the surface contours of the sea bed in the
area
It should be noted that at one time Borneo and Sumatra were continuously connected as a single landmass to the Malaysian Peninsula except for a possible brief period when the land bridge to Borneo may have been temporarily severed. Java would not have become fully connected to Sumatra until much later when the deep, narrow channel through the Sunda Straits existed. In fact, as is the case today, the highland areas of Sundaland occurred as a long arc of volcanic mountains fringing the southern and southeastern margin of the continent in Sumatra, Java and Bali, as extensive highlands in central and northern Borneo, and down the spine of the Malaysian peninsula.
The Indonesian Throughflow is a current movement of warm water off the tropical Pacific Ocean moving westward through Indonesia and between Malay Peninsula and Sumatra and into the Indian Ocean
These connections relate to several interstadial sea-level highstands or lowstands following the Last Interglacial and during the last glacial period. Of particular note is the existence of a flat widespread surface, interpreted as a marine abrasion terrace, identified in the vicinity of both Banka and Karimata Islands, that is, along the axis of the land bridge to Borneo (G.J.J. Aleva, “A Contribution to the Geology of Part of the Indonesian Tinbelt: the Sea Areas Between Singkep and Bangka Islands and Around the Karimata Islands,” Persatuan Geological Malaysia, 1972).
I shared a document with sources explaining the reasons why many geologists suspect that the Malay Peninsula was in fact cut off from the mainland at some point in the recent past, and also in the distant past. I understand some my have trouble opening links from the comments section, so I will share that document again:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.evernote.com/l/AAi9NhsV9jtBspbHMi3Lrk5BlfGIaOK9Qjg
In this document you will find the following source:
The Location of the Indo-Chinese Sundaic Biogeographic Transition in Plants and Birds
David S. Woodruff
Nat. Hist. Bull., Siam Soc. 51(1):97-108, 2003
The document says in relation to several claims made by several different geologists and biologists that the Malay Peninsula was at one point cut off from the mainland by seaways:
“Today a sea level at +100 m would flood the peninsula in two places (Woodruff, 2003); in the north a strait would open between Surat Thani and Krabi and, in the south, a strait would open between Songkhla and Kangar. Transgressions in the Miocene and Pliocene were probably in the range of +140 to +150 meters above today’s sea level, although Hutchinson (1989) estimated the Miocene transgression was +220 meters. There northern and southern straits were probably 20-100 km wide and 40-50 km wide, respectively. Both were oriented roughly north-south and contained a number of prominent islands.”
“These hypothetical seaways are the only barriers proposed so far to account for the origin and differentiation of the Indochinese and Sundaic biotas. Although such seaways have not featured in most recent bigeographic reconstructions, some earlier workers were aware of their possible existence (e.g. Parnell, 2000). Gerini (1909) cited geological and historical evidence to show that the land between Kedah and Songkhla is an old seabed and argued that boats crossed the peninsula here until a thousand years ago. Ridley (1911b:59) was explicit: “One can gather from the flora that at no great length f time ago the Malay Peninsula was cut off from Burmah south of Kedah, by the sea”. Corbet (1941:116) accepted Ridley’s argument for a sea channel but argued that it lay further north: “that while the present Malay Peninsula has undoubtedly been separated from the Asiatic mainland since the advent of the present species of butterflies, this separation occurred north of Kedah and the southward spread of insects and plants has been obstructed by a married which is largely climatic”. Any relationship between this historical seaway and an earlier prehistoric flooding associated with the +5 meter hypsithermal high stand (7000 years before present) and the current biogeography has yet to be established.”
Given the above collection of statements made by several geologists, it is clear that there is a very high probability that the Malay Peninsula was indeed an island at some point in recent geological history. If we accept a Biblical timeline, then it would seem probably that a seaway did indeed cut across the Malay Peninsula, making it an island.
I thought you went away? Did you read the other statement that totally destroys this model? Did you bother reading anything Jay? Where you said they landed the distance to the mainland is only 400 miles. You can't have an island which would be far smaller than that and stuff millions of people. Can't happen. Your model has been destroyed in so many ways. This is only the latest. I'll keep hammering away and pointing out the absurdity of your rediculous model if you want. We are all tired though of you not accepting any facts. Give it a rest Jay, your model has been proven to be wrong definitively.
DeleteThe blog post is about the Malay model, so the comment section will appropriately discuss the Malay model. As for your questions, I don't even understand them because I do not know where you get things like "400 miles distance to the mainland". What are you measuring? Distance to the mainland from what? Its not clear what you are referring to.
DeleteI'm measuring from the place you said Nephi landed to the mainland. The entire length of the peninsula is what Del wrote. From the land of their first inheritance to the mainland is 400 miles
DeleteWhere is your island? There isn't enough room on this itty bitty penesula as Del pointed out. I've asked you how many times now to tell me where this island of yours is. Where is the narrow neck, where did the Jaredites live. You've ignored everything that has been asked if you. I've had to resort to sarcasm to get anything.
So if you want to continue to debate it that's fine. People are tired of your Stonewalling and rediculous statements without any facts to back them up. The model has been completely discredited and that's a fact.
The Malay Peninsula is massive. It can, and does, easily hold millions of people. The population today is around 33 million people. I don't imagine that the Jaredite or Lehite civilizations were nearly that large.
DeleteIf the Malay Peninsula can hold 35 million people today, I imagine it could have held 1-3 million 2000-5000 years ago. Its not so itty bitty.
I answered this a few days back and I do try my best not to "stonewall" by attempting to respond to your dozens of questions and sarcastic jabs. Ira, I agree with David K that we take this conversation elsewhere. I don't know if you would be interested in continuing via email or otherwise, but our back and forth here in the comments section is becoming tiresome.
You may send email to adamkhan48@gmail.com
DeleteJay, You still haven't answered the question. The peninsula IS NOT MASSIVE. This is a very small area for millions of people who do not have technology. Yes millions can live there today because they have international trade. Not so anciently and that's the difference.
ReplyDeleteNO I AM NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR RIDICULOUS MODEL. Lets end it. If you respond further I will as well. But you have not made the case.
If you are willing to accept the statements of experts on the matter, there are estimates of a "population of three-quarters of a million" at the precise location we are discussing in the heart of the Malay Peninsula during the time period of the Book of Mormon. These estimates are found in:
DeleteAgriculture, Hydraulics, and Urbanism at Satingpra, August 1989 JANE ALLEN
I don't know how large the Lehite civilization was at its height, but if the center of the Malay Peninsula could sustain 750,000 people during the time of the Book of Mormon that suggests that it was not as itty bitty and very small as you propose.
To Unknown. Can you identify yourself?
DeleteI agree with so many who have written that this is of no further interest here. So this was my last article on the Malay Theory. Nothing more can be said. There are two histories of Southeast Asia, one held in the Western World and is supported by thousands of academicians and historians and the other is held by numerous individuals and historians in the eastern world. Evidently, the two will never see eye to eye. So, for those who support the Malay Theory, there re other posts where this issue is acceptable, but here on this blog, it has been thoroughly exhausted and no further articles or rebuttals will be encouraged. Thank you for your interest in the subject.
ReplyDeleteThank you Del. All the best.
DeleteDel, thank you. At least now we have the necessary information to intellegently debunk this model. In that regard it has been worth while. Let's get back to the real place where the Nephites lived and hopefully find new and exciting information. Ira
ReplyDeleteThis is Adam Khan (aka) Raja Saraka
ReplyDeletePlease continue. It is interesting and valuable.
ReplyDelete