Saturday, February 25, 2017

A Last Comment from McKane – Part II

Continuing with the Last Comment from David McKane and his 24 questions or comments has has proposed for us to answer. We are keeping our answers very brief per  his request, consequently no support or references are given.
10) Joseph Smith pointed to the Hopewell mounds as the Nephites.
    Response: No, he never said Nephite. Joseph Smith said that Zelph, who was found in what is called Mound 8, or the Zelph Mound, was a white Lamanite—not Nephite.
11) When missionaries were sent to the Lamanites see D&C they were always sent to North American, American Indians.
Response: That is because in the early days of the Church, the Indian Territory was only a few miles distant from the western New York, and later Illinois saints. Central and South America was a long way off for the early Saints, and travel to those areas was most difficult, whereas travel to Europe (England) was quite simple. However, you err in talking about “always sent” since when South America was opened (indeed all of Latin America) it was referred to as the Lamanite Lands outside of the European cities of South America.
12) The church has Identified the hill Cumorah as THE hill Cumorah. It has only one Hill Cumorah visitor center.
    Response: Again, you err. The Church has identified the hill Cumorah in western New York as the hill Cumorah where the plates were obtained by Joseph Smith. They have not referred to it as anything else and certainly not as the hill Cumorah location of the Book of Mormon. Best to know the facts, not opinions.
13) Your East Sea is not supported by Academia. At the time of the BOM your East sea does not exist by millions of years.
    Response: It does in a world that is about 13,000 years old according to the Biblical period Moses gives us and repeats in the Pearl of Great Price. You can take Academia over Moses, but I do not.
My Question to McKane: Since you and I and everyone here, who has come to this Earth and yet will, were at a Grand Council before the foundations of this world were laid (Abraham 3:22-28), do you really think we then sat around for the next 4.55 billion years to wait for our turn to come to this Earth? Really? Also, since we know that Adam was the first death on the Earth (Moses 6:48; 2 Nephi 2:22), all those billions of claimed deaths in the Geologic Column during those 4.55 billion years before man, could not have taken place.
14) Horses no evidence of horses in South America pre-European arrival (Enos 1:21)  
    Response: Again you err. Horse remains have been found in Central and South America. You don’t hear much about it because it is contrary to mainstream Academia, but is evidenced nonetheless. If you reject that, then there are no horses found in North America between so-called extinction time and the European arrival.
15) Cattle no evidence of cattle in South America pre European arrival (Enos 1:21)
    Response: Ditto North America.
16) Goats no evidence of goats in South America pre European arrival (Enos 1:21)
    Response: Ditto North America; however, feral wild goats have been found in South America, not elsewhere in the Americas.
17) Wheat no evidence of wheat in South America pre European arrival (Mosiah 9:9)
    Response: Ditto North America
18) Barley no evidence of barley in South America pre European arrival (Mosiah 9:9)
    Response: Again you err. Barley has been found in South America.
19) Iron Sword no evidence of Iron swords in South America pre European arrival (Mosiah 8:9)
    Response: Ditto North America; however, the most noted metallurgists have all stated that metallurgy began in South America during Nephite and Jaredite times, not so in North and Central America.
20) Breast-plates no evidence of breastplates in South America during BOM timeline (Mosiah 8:10)
Top LtoR: A so-called copper breastplate found in North America--it is so thin it would have provided no protection and was probably decorative; Sioux Indian spiritual breastplate "worn as body armor in battle" but now considered by the Sioux and plains Indians as ceremonial status symbols; Nez Perce breastplate; Cree "bone hair pipe breastplate"; Bottom: Chimu Culture gold breastplate, Northern Peru, South America; Gold Arm Band; Gold Wrist Band; all decorative but also usable
     Response: There is speculation of the dating of the copper breastplates found in North America, but nothing that has been dated to that time. In addition, as stated before, the one sample of a breastplate found in North America is so thin it would never have protected anyone--probably was decorative or ceremonial. As for South America, there have been metal breastplates found in Peru, Colombia (Quimbaya), and Brazil. Also metal headplates, metal arm bands, and metal wristbands. In addition, a fan-like helmet used in battle of the ancient Moche culture, along with copper and bronze breastplates found in Cerro Blanco, Peru.
21) I would like to see a visual representation of all aspects of Alma 22.
    Response: Look on our blog, it has been posted numerous time. Yours, by the way is totally inaccurate as we have shown in our 18-part series answering all your questions in great detail.
22) Generally south and meso American models place Lamanite wilderness always south of Zarahemla. The Lamanites were in wilderness on the South West and East of Zarahemla.
    Response: As our model shows. But what you fail to understand is the word “round about” as indicated in Alma 22:27, which meant in 1828 “curving” and ours shows this curving up along the seashore as Mormon describes, which is the essence of the wildernesses in the east seashore and west seashore—and, contrary to what you show, not east of the Sea East and west of the Sea West, but in between the seas.
23) You have Zarahemla close to the shoreline. But when Hagoth launches his ships him and thousands of men women and Children leave the Land of Zarahemla go by the Narrow neck and launch their boats. Why wouldn’t Hagoth launch from the Land of Zarahemla. In your model Zarahemla is closer to the shoreline than bountiful is.
Response: First of all,as we have shown numerous times, Hagoth never left in one of his shipsbefore claiming he did, read the scriptural record. Second, Hagoth built his shipyard near the narrow neck of land (Alma 63:5) and launched from there. The narrow neck, by definition, would have provided an inlet, bay or gulf, where ships being built, launched, repaired, etc., would require calm waters and protection, which the narrow neck would have provided. Zarahemla did not have such an environment. It is not rocket science but common sense to a mariner.
24) Hill Cumorah is in the South Countries Mormon ask the lamanite King permission to enter the Land of Cumorah essentially making one last stand.
    Response: This is a very ignorant (lacking in knowledge) comment. Cumorah was in the Land Northward, in the Land of Cumorah, in the Land of Many Waters, north of the land of Desolation (which was “so far northward” as we have explained several times in our 12-part series answering your questions—repeating the same erroneous information as you do over and over again does not change the facts of Mormon's writing).
25) Why didn’t the Nephites continue to migrate north when they knew they were outnumbered and would lose to the Lamanites.
    Response: too bad you have not read our blog which has shown this in numerous articles. However, the Andes mountains to the east and north of the Land Northward imnpeded any movement over them and, in fact, were never breached by man until the advent of airplanes (to the east) and building of roads and railroads and tunnels (to the north). Before the mountains came  up, the land was separated from Central Americas. It was an island as Jacob stated (2 Nephi 10:20).
26) A continued migration north would be their best option to preserve life. The land northward did not have Lamanites. With your model there would be no issue with a continued Northward migration (Alma 22:29, Mormon 6:2)
    Response: Again, you err. Even if the mountains to the north could have been breached (no one had ever done so until the Spanish arrived) there was the Darien Gap, which still exists and no one has ever penetrated that north to south or south to north except in four wheel vehicles, and then barely and with enormous difficulty, requiring boating at times to get around impossible passages.

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