Thursday, February 16, 2017

Answering a Reader's Easern U.S. Model - Part XI: The Western Hemisphere

Continuing with David McKane’s comments on our blog and his maps and claimed area for the Land of Promise in the Great Lakes area. Over the past few weeks Mckane has tried to dominate our blog with his comments, most of which are both erroneous and clear misunderstandings of the scriptural record, and the events that have and are taking place in South America as well as in his model area of the United States. 
   Continuing with the Land of Promise being the entire Western Hemisphere, i.e., North and South America, McKane writes: “The scriptures don't agree with you neither does Joseph Smith.”
Response: First of all, at the time of the Book of Mormon, the Nephites were on an island until 34 A.D. and would not have known about a continent, even after the Andes came up and the land lifted up, they would have had no way of getting over the Andes to learn of a land to the east, or beyond the mountains in Colombia to know of a land to the north. Secondly, and most importantly, Joseph Smith stated “…speaking of the Land of Zion, It consists of all N[orth] & S[outh] America but that any place where the Saints gather is Zion which every righteous man will build up for a place of safety for his children…The redemption of Zion is the redemption of all N[orth] & S[outh] America” (Martha Jane Knowlton Coray, edited by Dean C. Jessee, “Joseph Smith’s July 19, 1840 Discourse,” Brigham Young University Studies 19:3, Spring 1979, p. 392).
    In addition, a North and South America Promised Land was also taught by several modern Prophets and leaders like Wilford Woodruff, who said: “This land, North and South America, is the land of Zion; it is a choice land—the land that was given by promise from old father Jacob to his grandson and his descendants, the land on which the Zion of God should be established in the latter days.” Journal of Discourses (12 January 1873), 15:279,” and Ezra Taft Benson, said: “This is our need today—to plant the standard of liberty among our people throughout the Americas… the struggle for liberty is a continuing one—it is with us in a very real sense today right here on this choice land of the Americas” (Conference Report, October 1962, pp. 14–15; and also: “To the peoples who should inhabit this blessed land of the Americas, the Western Hemisphere, an ancient prophet uttered this significant promise and solemn warning” Conference Report (October 1944), p. 128; and numerous others, of which these few should suffice: 
    Orson Pratt: “And the Lord gave unto them the whole continent, for a land of promise….” Interesting Account of Several Remarkable Visions and of the Late Discovery of Ancient American Records, Edinburgh: Ballantyne and Hughes, 1840; cited in David J. Whittaker, The Essential Orson Pratt (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1991, p. 11; LDS Student manual 2009 states: “The phrase “utmost bound of the everlasting hills” (Genesis 49:26) refers to the Western Hemisphere. President Joseph Fielding Smith explained: “The Lord gave … America, as an everlasting possession to Joseph, the son of Jacob. His posterity, when cleansed from sin, and when they come forth in the resurrection, shall inherit this part of the earth. This land shall be theirs forever” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 1:88).
    If you would like more such quotes from Church leaders, we have written several blogs on the subject over the years and quoted all of them from time to time. Look it up.
The point is, the entire Western Hemisphere is the Land of Promise and certain parts are dedicated to certain things, i.e., South America, or at least that area on the western coastal escarpment was given to Lehi and his descendants forever. The United States will be the home of the New Jerusalem and has the special assignment under the Gentiles to safeguard the freedoms of the entire region of the Western Hemisphere.
    McKane writes: To show that the Nephites are in Desolation see Mormon 3:5 And it came to pass that I did cause my people that they should gather themselves together at the land Desolation, to a city which was in the borders, by the narrow pass which led into the land southward.” The Nephites had to pass through the narrow pass to get to the lamanite controlled land of Cumorah at that time.”
    Response. The disagreement is not over where the Nephites were, they were obviously in the Land Northward, in the Land of Desolation after the Treaty of 350 A.D. The point in question is your claim the Land of Cumorah was in the land Southward, since you said “The Nephites had to pass through the narrow pass to get to the lamanite controlled land of Cumorah at that time,” and that the narrow pass divided the Land Southward from the Land Northward.
    Mormon tells us: “Now consider Mormon’s words:
    “The Land of Desolation extends “so far northward” that it reached “the land which had been people and been destroyed.” That is, the Land of Desolation ran northward into the land, which was north of it, where the Jaredites had been destroyed, i.e., the area where they fought their last battles, which was near the hill Cumorah, which, according to Mormon was located in the Land of Many Waters. “And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.”
    However, with an arrogance claiming to know more than Mormon, McKane adds: “This statement is also incorrect. ‘7. The hill would have to be quite some distance north of the narrow neck of land, beyond the Land of Desolation, within an area called the Land of Cumorah, “so far northward.’ Once again Cumorah is in the south controlled by Lamanites.”
The hill Cumorah was in the Land Northward, in the Land of Cumorah, in the Land of Many Waters, which was north of the Land of Desolation! Your argument is not with us, but with Mormon—obviously, you do not agree with him, for you write: ‘The Jaredite record fully supports the record of the Nephites showing that Cumorah is in the South countries.”

It is not! That is hogwash! Your words are contrary to the scriptural record and it doesn't matter that you keep on repeating them--they are simply wrong!
    McKane also writes: “It may not make sense to you but it make complete sense from where Nephi is from. Land locked lakes are called seas in Israel. Example Sea of Galilee and the Red Sea.
    Response: First of all, the Sea of Galilee was called anciently, Lake Kinneret and Lake Gennesaret and Lake Tiberias; and the Red Sea is not a land-locked lake—it is open to the Sea of Arabia, and like the Persian Gulf, is really an inlet of the ocean or sea. They teach that in Middle School. Were you asleep? Look on a map.
    McKane: “You are also ignoring another [scripture] Doctrine and Covenants 54:8, “And thus you shall take your journey into the regions westward, unto the land of Missouri, unto the borders of the Lamanites.”
Response: As stated earlier, the entire Western Hemisphere is the Land of Promise, and that the Nephites and Lamanites traveled northward from Chile, eventually into North America, i.e., Zelph and Onandagus, is well understood. That the descendants of the Lamanites still occupied both lands at the time of Joseph Smith has been verified by numerous Church leaders and latter-day Prophets. So what is your point? These were Lamanites throughout both lands. Were there only Lamanites? Doubtful. But Lamanites were here and the early Church was under obligation by the Lord to take the gospel to them, which early missionaries did.
(See the next post, ”Answering a Reader – Part XII,” for more information on David Mckane’s model around the Great Lakes of his Land of Promise and our responses to his comments on our blog)

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